I’ve tried to find some articles on disciplining techniques, specifically, using embarrassment or humiliation.
The reason is that my school, which will remain nameless, has been using a dog bone which is tied around the students neck when the student misbehaves. The bone says “Ask Me What I Did Wrong”. The student has to wear it for the rest of the day and students and teachers ask the student what he/she did wrong.
Is it me, or is this a bit twisted? Isn’t this exactly the same as “The Dunce Cap” which hasn’t been used by most teaching professionals since the 50’s? Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is Positive Punishment, which is supposed to be the least effective (in the long term) method of correcting student behavior.
Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Has anyone seen any articles on the topic and could point me in the right direction?
That really is bad.
Who is behind this policy? Talk to them about it.
I think I’m going to, but I’d like some research to back up my concerns…
Can you explain why you think it is bad? Is it better than yelling at children or worse?
Both yelling at kids and using a shaming device are generally poor choices for discipline. I’m having trouble finding a simple authority declaring this, but there are lots of articles about how using negative reinforcement in schools is less effective than positive reinforcement and can be harmful. By this point it seemst to be almost common knowledge. But good luck finding a source. I’m sure you’ll find something solid in short order.
I think it is safe to assert that studies have shown that shaming devices cause stress and can lead to long term emotional problems. Just make sure you go in with a suggestion of how to change things to make it better.
(I mean negative reinforcement as in introducing something bad or removing something good-- not the technical meaning of the term.)
Definitely sounds wrong to me, but good luck convincing them of that in a society that finds corporal punishment acceptable.
edit: Sorry I don’t have time to go through these search results… but some of them seem helpful to the subject in question.
The method you mentioned sounds very wrong to me. I hope you succeed in persuading them to change.
Aside from the fact that this technique is seriously damaging to kids` self-esteem, it openly encourages students to ridicule, shame and discipline one another. Basic group think reinforcement stuff. So wrong…it will just create way more problems in the end. Unbelievable.
None of the first 10 hits deal with shaming, they are all on corporal punishment. Some refer to verbal punishment, but then none of them go on to explain why verbal punishment fails, they all target corporal punishment.
I modified your Google Search to add ‘shaming’ and the results are better (and better, I might add, than the search terms I had been using), but still the results tend to go on about physcial punishment and only mention shaming as a form of punishment without detailing why it is bad.
Perhaps going through this search will yield something, but in the first 5 or so I went through on the revised search I didn’t see much more than lumping shaming together as “bad” and nothing specifically on why it is bad.
In answer to cybergorilla, I can’t think of ANY reason to humilliate or embarass a student as a way of discipline. Where were you before you came to Taiwan? Working in a jail in Iraq? What the hell is going on in your brain (excuse me for exagerating the premise) that you think you need resources to help you humilliate and embarass some kid who doesn’t speak the language you are obliged to teach? Further, anybody who offers such help to an asshole like this deserves the respect of nobody. What are your intentions? humilliate and embarass a little kid because you don’t know how to tie your own shoes?
While I am sure that somewhere on the net there is a page that will help the cybergorrilla with its quest, I am sure that its answers are most likely found in the pages of some racially supreme mudderfunker.
Jerks like you should be thrown out of Taiwan. Or any other place around kids.
Rube - read the damned post. He said he thinks it’s twisted and wrong. I think that if you put a bit of thought in between your cursory glance at the post and the jerking of your knee, you’d realize that he’s looking for information that either disproves the school’s idea - not his - or that supports it, against what he expects.
Jerks like you should be thrown out of the human race.
I read his post quite well, and I still stand by what I said in reply. Anyone who has to even question the ethical legitity of what his “school” is requiring needs to take a good look at what he is doing. There was certainly no knee jerking on my part. You are quite right as far as his post being “damned”; that it was from the beginning.
Your remarks about my validity as a member of the human race cause me to think that maybe your knees are twitching a tad.
Again, anyone who has questions about the validity of humiliation and embarassment as a way to control anyone in any situation needs to take a strong look at what they are doing. In my opinion it is a question which should require no thought to answer.
There MUST be an ultimate goal for any type of punishment. Humiliation, degredation and embarrassment can’t possibily work, especially for younger kids, because the OFF button in their heads will kick in, and they will just stand there and take it…developing a tougher and tougher skin, which in the long run will be bad in so many ways.
Shame. Hmm. I have used shaming to get some students to change their behavior, but the thing is, shaming is not done in an angry aggresive tone…as humiliation and degredation usually are; and shaming does not automaticaly include the sarcasm that is normal when using an “embarrassment” technique.
Shaming must be done at a language level appropriate to the student. It involves a lot of critical thinking and patient explanation and the experience is at a totally different emotional level: it involves concern and compassion and empathy for the other people involved. It can be powerfully effective…yet it is very very hard to do well.
I ERICked it for you and came up with this article on teacher’s efficiency on classroom management and behavior based on their forms of discipline. It’s a bit verbose, but it certainly proves that emotional punishments such as yelling, corporal punishment, and shaming are the means used by, to put it simply, bad teachers.
I worked at a school that did the same thing…the kids would stand in the hall with a sign around their neck basically saying what they did wrong. I asked the boss about it, saying that it was quite warped. Didn’t have any effect, though. I was basically talking to the wall and the boss happened to be there. She wasn’t the least bit interested in hearing what a foreigner, or maybe anyone else, thought about how her school was being “run”.
Also, Rube, please have another look at the OP’s first couple posts. You’re preaching to the converted…he thinks it’s wrong, too. I’ll never cry about a typo, but please don’t make up words like “legitity”. Did you mean legitimacy? As Bush has shown, if you want to use bigger words, make sure you know how to use them or you’ll really look foolish.
Hah, I wish they would use a bone at my school. I have a teacher who phsyically beats the kids for EVERYTHING. From moving not fast enough for her pleasure to making errors on their work. With that I am, getting to the point of hauling off and slapping the shit out of her, and I would do it. But it wouldn’t a drop of difference as the parents and the students love her and think she’s a great teacher. :loco:
I don’t avocate phsyical violence of course, but I can’t see too much wrong in using the occational embrass techinque when needed. I’ve used it when I’ve had kids trying to ‘show off’ to friends and so forth and found it to get the point across. Also, this is a society where that darned ‘face’ value is very high on the list. So, I don’t fight it. I use the system just enough to get the work done but not enough to have me reget anything on my deathbed.
Yeah good luck with having a word, but I doubt you will have much luck. I am still looking for that paper that says belting Johnny will make him do better in his exams. It must exist because every Taiwanese parent seems to have found the time to read it and put it into practice (although most don’t seem to have time to talk with their kids) :loco:
EDIT: yep I know I am over generalising but I come across so many kids who say they get hit when they do badly in exams.
[quote=“jdsmith”]Shame. Hmm. I have used shaming to get some students to change their behavior, but the thing is, shaming is not done in an angry aggresive tone…as humiliation and degredation usually are; and shaming does not automaticaly include the sarcasm that is normal when using an “embarrassment” technique.
Shaming must be done at a language level appropriate to the student. It involves a lot of critical thinking and patient explanation and the experience is at a totally different emotional level: it involves concern and compassion and empathy for the other people involved. It can be powerfully effective…yet it is very very hard to do well.[/quote]
Yes, there is a place for that, but it in general it is not good.
When it is time to use shame on a kid it is best either to prevent a bigger bubble burst later down the line, or to let the kid feel shame themselves without having the big public spectacle. I think that’s what you are talking about.
But what the OP was talking about isn’t anything like that.