[quote=“shifty”]No I am Canadian, as with everytime this sort of thing happens my Taiwanese friends always say sorry and feel shame.
[/quote]
Shifty,
Do they really feel shame, or just bow their heads and look humble until the person goes away?
Seems like the default Taiwanese strategy for dealing with criticism is to say, “yes, yes, my fault, buhao yisi, pai se pai se” a lot and look submissive until the person criticizing you goes away (this was the favorite strategy of my university students when I was teaching in Taiwan) and then – poof! Back to business as usual.
Sounds like this woman was one taco short of a combination plate anyway.
I’m with Sandman on this one. I don’t see anyone particularly crazy about this. Take the woman at her word: she thought you guys were destroying trees. Just because you said you were clearing the path doesn’t mean that it’s true. Of course I believe you that that was what you were doing, but why did that woman have to believe you? Have you never come across a group of teens or kids doing something wrong and not believed their explanation that they were in fact doing something completely harmless and that you were just misinterpreting their actions? And haven’t you ever accused someone of wrongdoign and then, when you discovered that it was you who were wrong, walked off in a huff without an apology pretending still that there was something wrong with what the person was doing? Of course you have. We all have. And that, I suspect, is all that happened the other day. A misunderstanding that the woman couldn’t back down from or never realized.
[quote=“Mr He”]Up on the hill, where I live, a few foreign residents went out after a typhoon and started to clear a big tree off the road.
I don’t think they were screamed at as such, however they made it into the newspaper as “The crazy foreigners vandalizing a tree”.
:loco:
Perhaps one of the road clearing residents could share a bit more about that with us? :help:[/quote]
Ok I’ll fess up…I cut down the damm tree.
Not totally true, the tree was already down and leaning dangerously against the glass window of another foruumosans home. We simply cut it off, trimmed all the branches (good size tree) and stacked the lot neatly in a proper woodpile for the gardeners to pick up later. I was as surprised as anyone to be accused of “vandalism”. Funny enough nobody claimed the same when myself and several other foreign residents spent the morning clearing fallen trees so we could get home after Nari… :loco:
Since Shifty was trying to clean up and do a good deed, and she freaked out, something tells me that this woman is insane; he could stop a train to save her and she’d still freak out.[/quote]
Idiots like this are everywhere. I was sitting in my own driveway having a BBQ with a couple of white friends and some dick tourists wants to know why I’m using somebody elses property?
Seeing as they had walked about 40m up the driveway to the house I promptly sprayed them with water from my garden hose and told them F off.
Turns out the main idiot of the group is a university professor who thought he knew better than to let a group of whities squat in some aboriginals house. :loco: :loco: :loco:[/quote]
How many whities live up where you are? Don’t you think he had some justification for saying what he did?
We all complain tirelessly how the Taiwanese don’t give a shit about the land or other people not related to them. And yet when they do act with some kind of civil conscience we complain again. They can’t win.
[quote=“Muzha Man”] How many whities live up where you are? Don’t you think he had some justification for saying what he did?
We all complain tirelessly how the Taiwanese don’t give a shit about the land or other people not related to them. And yet when they do act with some kind of civil conscience we complain again. They can’t win.[/quote]
He could have first asked if I lived here :loco: :loco: :loco:
I mean shite, food on the barbie, beers and wine, plates knives and forks all around, English music coming from the house… and he’s walking into a place he’s never been before and you should thinks he’s justified for tresspassing on my property?
Do ya think I looked lost so I just sat down with me buddies and started using other peoples wood, food, and wine. DAMN… NUTS
Maybe all the Taiwanese should just waltz into your apartment to see what your doing there?
Maybe you should ask yourself how many Chinese people live up here?
But when I’m installing a dish on top of an apartment building they do come and ask and I explain what I’m doing. I tell them they can check with the security guard who let me in the building and give them my name card. ( I’ve gotten a few extra installs outta doing that )
Beg to differ. Speaking for myself only, I’m just looking for a reasonable reaction. Neither apathy or ranting. A reaction that is logically linked to what’s happening, after the quick observation and analysis that any reasonable person would put into such a situation before reacting.
Many made great points. I will start with sandman:
Absolutely she was a hiker, she said she “hiked here everyday”, and that “I don’t need roads.”
I reminded her that many people used this public land: hikers, bikers and rock climbers, kids old people and tourists.
I kind of felt like she hated seeing anybody on her trail, however her trail was hikable again because I had spent 6 hours clearing fallen trees.
Ironlady asked me about the shame factor:
My friends never bow their heads during the confrontations they respond to aggression and rudeness with aplomb, it is after that they express shame at the actions of their fellow countrymen, so I am thinking it is not a show.
Namahottie mentioned about being asked vs doing it:
I agree to a certain point but there is something to be said for civil duty and just doing something that needs to be done for the good of all.
It is not her country it is their country, many ideas and many desires etc… I think that any validity to this point ended when she, in her lack of any other ideas, resorted to all that racist shit.
Mucha man:
I understood her point to a degree but when she launched into “you have no , you don’t belong, you are destroying my …” My manners faded away. Maybe she has seen this for 40 years and is very tender on the subject, however when your own rage blinds you, and you lash out hatful at everybody who dares to be on your trail, it kinda of robs you of any validity.
I see many people destroying and dumping crap in this beautiful place. exactly why I take a giant garbage bag up once a month to clear all the water bottle and luch boxes off the trail. However I do not feel the need to march up to them and snatch their belongings away and throw them into the woods.
[quote=“Satellite TV”]
He could have first asked if I lived here :loco: :loco: :loco: [/quote]I’ve had some experiences which I think stem from the same assumption… if you look different then you’re not supposed to be here.
New neighbor rings on the doorbell thinking that he’s just going to walk in and check up on what it is I’m doing in the house. The house in is Taiwan, he’s Taiwanese, I’m a foreigner. Therefore, he has more rights here than I do. :loco:
Guy sees me fiddling with the old worn lock on my old worn car, walks straight up and says he’ll call the police to report me for trying to steal it. Won’t accept the idea that it’s mine until I open the door, reach in and grab the registration. I tell him to go ahead and call the cops. He stomps off in a huff.
Cyclist going twice the speed limit, wrong side of the road on a blind corner. He crashes into me, which is lucky for him since he would have sailed off a 100m cliff otherwise. Then he claims the accident is my fault because I was in the wrong place. Huh? Yeah, if I was back ‘home’ where I was supposed to be, the accident wouldn’t have happened. :loco:
Up on the trails in WuZhrShan the tea house guys have put nails in the trail, deliberately placed logs across the trail and a variety of other means to stop bikers. Not mountain bikers but the motorised trials bikers that ride UP the trails.
At least it isnt to the stage where they place piano wire across the trails or dig ditches with spikes in them like hikers have done here in Oz.
I agree with Poagao - she is mad - and also Sandy - she hates bikers. Simple. These types are everywhere. Her ‘foreigner’ angle was bizarre however.
the yokels are pretty keen on the whole “anything that I use is mine and mine only by default” approach even to public property… think parking space in front of houses, scooter lanes, shop signs, sidewalks in front of shops, hiker’s trails, etc… the notion that a foreigner could in fact have a legitimate claim to share the use of said “property” does not compute, and in fact if they think about it for a while it becomes “an insult to all Taiwanese”, case in point: crackpot hiker lady… it all stems from the ‘selfish gene’ (to steal and incorrectly paraphrase a term) that is present in 99% of Taiwanese that leads them to rationalize pretty much everything down to “me first, the hell with everyone else, especially big noses”…
prime if somewhat sinister example… the uneducated peasant inhabintants of Guo-Xing on the 133 linking the 21 with the 14 to Sunmoonlake… after a sprited attempt by one of their binlang drenched bretheren to kill me using is unlicenced farm truck on a public road several months ago (previously discussed in another thread) they must have had some kind if resident’s meeting at which they decided that they don’t like big bikes coming down what used to be “their” quiet stretch of public road… their solution… a few weeks back the usual Sunday morning big bike traffic bound for sunmoon lake on these choice, twisty, but dangerous mountain roads discovers that the locals have mixed oil and diesel and poured it in large quantities through the apex of around 5 different corners… clearly freshly laid that morning, clearly deliberately mixed and sprayed onto the roads… 7 bikers go down in total, all local… amazingly no-one was killed, I think there was a broken collar bone or two and plenty of road rash, but mostly just several hundred thousand NT$ worth of damage to bikes and equipment…
the cops are called and their reaction to this clear cut act of sabotage and what amounts to attempted murder… “oh they live here, they’re probably angry that you bikers ride on their roads every Sunday… case closed…” :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume: :fume:
[quote=“Muzha Man”][quote=“Satellite TV”]…
Turns out the main idiot of the group is a university professor who thought he knew better than to let a group of whities squat in some aboriginals house. :loco: :loco: :loco:[/quote]
How many whities live up where you are? Don’t you think he had some justification for saying what he did?
We all complain tirelessly how the Taiwanese don’t give a shit about the land or other people not related to them. And yet when they do act with some kind of civil conscience we complain again. They can’t win.[/quote]
If Han out-of-towners think that they can walk into a Tsou community and start lording it over foreigners then a good hose-down is less than they deserve. That’s not “civil conscience”, it’s expressing the assumption that white people can’t congregate in an Aboriginal area without Han permission
This is so simple.
Hikers hate mountain bikers
Mountain bikers hate enduro riders
Enduro riders hate ATV riders
ATV riders hate… the next off-road vehicle
Skiers hate snowboarders
Nordic skiers hate snowmobile riders
Etc.
This is common all over the world, wherever such pastimes are done. The woman’s anti-foreigner comments were just cheap shots so she wouldn’t have to admit that she just hates bikers on the hiking trails.
dont forget bikers hate horse riders. bur hikers dont mind them… oh yeah and local councils hate bikers, but love hikers, 4WD’ers and horse riders (older demographic that votes I suppose)
Muzha man:
I understood her point to a degree but when she launched into “you have no , you don’t belong, you are destroying my …” My manners faded away. Maybe she has seen this for 40 years and is very tender on the subject, however when your own rage blinds you, and you lash out hatful at everybody who dares to be on your trail, it kinda of robs you of any validity.[/quote]
If you thought I was criticizing you, you misunderstood. You had every right to get angry. I would likely have reacted in a similar fashion, unless I was in a particularly good mood.
Nor did I mean to suggest that the woman’s behavior was commendable beyond being concerned about the forest. I think she behaved like an idiot. I was just suggesting that she may well have thought you guys were really cutting down trees and acted rashly out of that concern. But you seem to get that now.
Thanks for your patience. It was so inter-mingled I probably haven’t got it 100% right.
Also, invalid sessions galore today, so it took forever to clean up…:fume:
[quote=“sandman”]This is so simple.
Hikers hate mountain bikers
Mountain bikers hate enduro riders
Enduro riders hate ATV riders
ATV riders hate… the next off-road vehicle
Skiers hate snowboarders
Nordic skiers hate snowmobile riders
[/quote]
Body boarders hate surfers
Surfers hate surf ski’s
Bass players hate the musically impared
