Vets Mistakes and The Importance of Vaccinations

Have a bit of interesting info about spaying. Went to see my new vet in Shijr today and got talking about Moli, my bitch that ran off with a pack of mountain strays. He reckons that maybe she wasn’t spayed properly (she was too young, everything wasn’t removed properly – happens all the time here with shoddy vets, he says) So maybe her body was still able to make hormones and after four years of being cooped up with two castrated males she leaped at the chance to run off for some sex! (can’t blame her, really!)

Don’t even know even if this is actually physically possible – maybe the spay took out the womb but not all the ovaries, so she didn’t come in heat and bleed but her body still made oestrogen? The vet said asked whether our two boys used to sniff her a lot, which they did, so maybe she was kind of coming into heat every now and then. It would explain why after four years she got the urge to clamber over a six-foot fence every day to cavort with mountain dogs (she came back every night for a month) and then finally run away into the hills with them! Opportunity came knocking – or sniffing!

Maybe this is a case for spaying a little later so everything is big enough for an incompetent vet surgeon to remove? When we had one of the cats done at six months the vet said everything was tiny and he had a hard time locating what was supposed to taken out (shudder!)

Anyway, something else to add to the list of things to worry about for your dogs!

My dog pug has the same problem. Apparently sometimes the ovary is too far up in some animals and it’s hard to get it all or something. So pug still comes into heat and steal bleeds a little and still attracts the local dogs. It has come to the point where my other female dog Roxy tries to shagg her every now and again. I was thinking of taking her back to the vet to get the rest but was recommended not to as it is a difficult surgery and trying to get the rest could result in pushing it further and she would have to go through the op for nothing.

Perhaps you should see a different vet. The uterus and ovaries are still connected in dogs, so he should have been able to pull the ovaries out too, once he found the uterus. It sounds like he removed neither…

Maybe he did some weird tube tying thing that some Taiwanese vets do, but that really isn’t much good, since your dog still comes into heat, and are still potentially prone to all the uterus/ovary illnesses.

What area do you live in? I can find you a list of vets in your area if you want

Sorry to hear about Pug, ukbikerchic. I don’t know how old she is, but she may be better off with getting spayed again by a reputable vet, as lupillus says, in case she ever feels the need to roam. Of course, she may be quite happy with Roxy – different strokes, different folks! I know of someone else whose supposedly spayed dog disappeared without warning, so maybe this problem is pretty common. I’d also hate to put a dog through a procedure unnecessarily. It’s a tough call. I suppose it also depends on where you live. My place backs onto a mountain, and packs of strays regularly call through and say hi to mine through the fence – the temptation obviously got too much for Moli – It’s a bit like Fleet Week every time the pack comes through! :wink:

I live in Mucha. I had the op done at Guting Animal Hospital on hoping east road and rosevelt road. I’ve know the vet for quiet some time and he did Tiger another of my dogs. Her op was a success.

I don’t know maybe you’re right but so far 2 vets have told me not to.

What to do? I’ll take her to another vet and see what they say. She has a very week immune system, is allergic to some injection or another and had mange when i first got her. So if it isn’t neccessary i really don’t want to put her through it as i know it will make her skin flair up (it flairs up due to stress most of the time, fingers crossed we’ve 11 months of clear beautiful skin and fur). But if the vet thinks it is a good idea and for the best then i’ll do it.

My house is a girl household, 4 girl dogs, one girl cat and me… i don’t think my dogs even know what a male is :unamused:

I feel really bad for making you worry you now! :blush:

If Pug doesn’t even know what she’s missing, I doubt she’ll run off. I think Moli watched too much Sex and the City! If the vets are saying no, then that’s cool – from my experience here, if a vet doesn’t insist on performing a procedure that costs cash money, then they’re a good vet!


Don’t feel bad, it is something i have been thinking about since i found out.

She’s a very happy dog, but does attract a few strays when she’s in heat. I just want to do what is best for her. I’ll find out what Doc Yang says and let you know.

A vet that I like is Yangming Animal hospital.

陽明家畜醫院 02-28726911 台北市士林區 天母東路1~6號
Address is No.1~6 Tienmu E. Rd

Baobao animal hospital is the one I am going to currently, and it seems all right.
寶寶動物醫院 02-23677624 台北市中正區 汀州路二段125號

I used to go to kuting animal hospital, but not anymore.

There are way too many people who go in there, which increases the chances of your dog catching an illness by a thousandfold. They charge too much. None of the other vets I have gone to have ever asked for an “examinination” fee.

I picked up a stray a few months ago and took him there to see if everything was ok with him. They found out he had heartworms, so the vet recommended giving him treatment for heartworm. So I listened to him, and I paid for the stray’s heartworm treatment.

I took him there a few days later and left him there at the hospital for three days, at the vet’s recommendation. Since he thought it would be better for him to remain there for a few days after the injections.

When I got him three days later, it seems he was not given the opportunity to pee or poo during his entire stay. The vet claims they let him out of the cage for a very short time each day and he peed a little. However, when I took him out of the vet, he immediately rushed to the nearest tree and peed a huge puddle. Then took several shits. They didn’t let him poo for three whole days.

He also screamed in terror for a week whenever I touched his lower back.

So I bring him home, and a week or so later, he had a lot of greenish eye discharge. Well we’d hit the jackpot again. Distemper.

Even though he was still eating and drinking at that time, the vet wanted to give him an IV drip. He, having become deathly afraid of needles after his lovely little stay, refused to let the vet touch him.

So I told him I thought the drip would hurt the dog more than it would do him good, and refused it.

Anyway, my point is, even thought I told him from the beginnning that this dog was a stray I had just picked up, he never mentioned anything about giving him immunizations. This dog was perfectly healthy when I got him, and died of distemper he got infected with at Kuting animal hospital.

I really wish I had thought of getting him his shots first, and not listened to the vet about getting his heartworm treatment done right away. Then I would still have a living dog here.

I used to use guting way back when he wasn’t so busy. The owner Dr. xung is really good and thorough, but the others aren’t. I also stopped using him about 2 years ago.

Pug was my friends dog, which i found for her, but she got pregnant and has another dog and a cat, so i took pug as she has many problems. But since i’ve had her, her skin has cleared up completely (fingers crossed) and is very healthy, apart from the heat thing. My freind used to still use Guting and got her spayed there.
I dont’ like the other vets there as they, to me, don’t seem to care about the animals and not really know what they are talking about.

Fat so (my oldest dog) has a hip problem and sometimes when she lays wrong it can play up and she starts limping, well i took her to guting, quickly panicing and they told me she would never walk again and her other leg would go soon too.

I took her home and cried my eyes out. By the time i got to work i was a blubbering mess. After work my friend came home with me to see fat so and give me moral support. To my amazement Fat so was bounding around like a 2 year old. Since then i have realized basically she needs to lose weight and every now and again a little leg massage will do the trick if she sleeps on her leg the wrong way.

I will see Dr Yang and see what he says.

I also have to make the decision whether or not to get my cat spayed. She has no nervous system in her lower half so i have to help her go to the bathroom every morning and night. 2 docs have told me that to spay her would be very high risk, but when she is in heat (which seems like most of the time) it is very uncomfortable for her to be de-peed and de-pooped.

Ah the decisions of motherhood :s

You guys are givving me the fuzzies. What a bunch of awesome people you are…

Lupillus, you did what you could and what you thought was right. Distemper is a killer.

Magnolia, if you didn’t mind adding to your thread title a mention to the importance of vaccinating our pets, I’d gladly add a link to the Forumosa Pet Center sticky thread as I think this thread includes important information about the dangers of taking a pet to a vet if it’s not vaccinated.

Keep it up folks, you are the wind in my sail.

Sorry, Bobepine, I don’t actually know how to do that! Doh! :s

Perhaps you could retitle it “Vet F**k-ups”?

Talking of crazy vets, one of the vets I used to see in Chung Ho was a marvel – took in stray dogs, did operations for free etc, but advised me, as he said he did all his animals’ owners, that the only way to stop your dog getting diseases in Taiwan was to never take it outside! Wouldn’t be awful if the whole keeping dogs in cages thing was due to “professional” advice like that? :loco:

UKbikerchic, that’s some tough decision-making. Good luck with that and best wishes to all the animals involved.

And Lupillus, makes you wonder what qualifications – if any – you need to set up a vet practice here. Do you think noodle vendors just wake up one day and say, “Umm, I think being a vet would be lucrative”? :idunno:

Further to the above poster whose dog was treated for heartworms before receiving his vaccinations, one of our dogs was in a similar situation. When we adopted him, his leg was badly broken and he had a barely positive heartworm test result. The doc did the surgery on his leg right away (titanium plates and screws). There was a bit of post op fever, but as soon as it was gone, the doc gave him his first jab. He insisted on giving him the jab ASAP since he knew the dog would be coming in and out of the clinic for stitch removal, X-rays, heartworm treatment and rabies jabs over the next couple of months and that the risk of picking up distemper or another disease would be a bit high. Any stray should be assumed to have heartworms, but my advice is that if you adopt one, unless he/she is showing symptoms of heartworm disease (i.e. coughing, shortness of breath), get the basic jabs done before doing the heartworm treatment. Only let the vet do truly emergency treatment before doing basic vaccinations (rabies can wait longer). Most vets in Taiwan stay busy treating inbred little buggers from the puppy mills whose biggest problems are obesity and rotting teeth instead of rescued, generally sturdy dogs that have a list of problems that would best be handled in a certain order. Even for a good vet, if he’s got a rescued dog in front of him with multiple problems he may give the wrong thing priority. Remind him to do the jabs ASAP.

I can understand why a vet would say that in Taiwan, the only way to keep your dog from getting sick is to not let him out. I disagree with not letting the dog out, but the vet is pretty much correct. Herd immunity to diseases like distemper is very low in Taiwan. There are two reasons for this: there are more strays that have never been vaccinated, and there are more pet dogs that either didn’t have their vaccinations done right the first time (due to vet incompetence, i.e. giving the dog his jab when he had a low fever, thus killing the vaccination bugs) or the dog’s human not taking the dog back in for booster shots.

Even for humans, a certain percentage of say whooping cough vaccinations are expected not to take. The person who got that vaccination will unknowingly be vulnerable to the bugs that cause whooping cough, but since 99.9% of the population is vaccinated for it, there just aren’t enough people passing it around for that vulnerable person to be exposed to it. However, if say only 95% of the population is vaccinated, then herd immunity will be seriously compromised because you suddenly not only have 5% of people who are vulnerable and able to pass the disease around, but you also have a certain percentage of people whose vaccines didn’t take. People who had assumed they were safe can end up getting just as sick as the person who wasn’t vaccinated. In a worst case scenario, the disease will have enough breathing room to mutate into a strain that the vaccination doesn’t protect against.

This same logic applies to dog vaccinations, and the result is much more profound since far more than just 5% of any given dog population isn’t vaccinated for distemper. According to our vet, in a laboratory, the distemper vaccinations that dogs receive are only effective against about 80% of the known strains of the disease. I imagine that’s a much lower level of protection than what human vaccinations provide. In the real world, and especially in Taiwan or HK where there are a lot of unjabbed dogs, the protection provided by a distemper vaccine is not so great. Let your dogs out, but don’t let them interact with strays. The chances of them picking up distemper or something else are just too high.

Another poster was upset about a rescued animal not having the chance to pee or poop in the clinic. This is actually pretty normal and not really the vet’s fault. Most strays are only comfortable doing their business in grass or shrubs. Our dog Lucky just cannot do it indoors. If a vet has any grassy areas nearby, you might ask him to take the dog there a couple of times a day, or you could come by to take him out yourself.

I understand why vets say that, Jive Turkey; it is of course the short-sighted but technically “correct” solution to avoid your dog getting disease, one that means you don’t even have to bother with immunising your own dog if you keep him in a cage on the balcony for his entire life. But there are quality of life issues that, for me, beggar belief that a dedicated veterinary professional would offer this advice instead of recommending vaccinations and a bit of common sense, such as, as you say, keep your dog away from strays. No wonder so many pet owners have such short-sighted views when it comes to their animals. Grr! :fume:

Distemper For Bobepine.

Alson W. Sears DVM copyright 1999

Anti-Distemper Serum

  1. The following protocol is for the production of anti-Distemper serum.
  2. This serum is used S.Q. for the elimination of Distemper virus in acutely infected dogs.
  3. Early treatment is recommended. Less than 4 days of illness.
  4. Treat for bacterial pneumonia for at least seven days!
  5. Recovery of acute Distemper Disease is usually within 12 to 48 hours.
  6. This is species specific but, can be induced and used in any other species that are susceptible to distemper or related diseases.

Procedures for making serum

  1. Dog- use an 8-12 month old mixed breed dog 60-100 lbs, young and healthy.
  2. Do full lab work up to eliminate all possible health problems.
  3. Vaccinate against all local diseases.
  4. Do not use breeds or individuals known to have immune deficiency problems.
  5. Make up Newcastle virus vaccine 1000 dose vial. (Use only 10 cc of diluent. Discard balance.) La Sota strain. This virus is your cell immunity inducer.
  6. Place IV Catheter in dog.
  7. Inject 2-3cc of Newcastle virus I.V. (shock may occur. Treat with I.V fluids accordingly) (Do Not use Corticosteroids)
  8. Induction of Anti-Distemper serum may only be done once on any dog. The second time around only antibodies to Newcastle¹s disease is produced.
  9. Timing is essential. Take blood 11-12 hours post injection (11-12 hrs post injection= Anti-viral factors=Very effective against Distemper Virus in VIVO.)
  10. All procedures must be sterile. 11-12 hours post injection anesthetize donor dog.
  11. Place Jugular catheter.
  12. Start I.V fluids.
  13. Withdraw blood and inject into 10cc blood vials [sterile no additive vials] and allow the blood to clot.
  14. Centrifuge immediately after clotting for clear serum. Do not allow RBC¹s to lyse.
  15. Remove serum and place into sterile bottles.
  16. Place serum bottles in baggies and store in refrigerator. Bottles of serum can be stored for up to five years in a refrigerator.
  17. Cryo-precipitates may form after refrigeration. Mixing causes clouding. This is not harmful.
  18. May be filtered out with a .02micron filter. Keep sterile.

Distemper types

  1. Young un-vaccinated dogs, usually from pounds. Dogs with all the recognizable symptoms i.e. pneumonia, catarrh, fever, diarrhea, collapse, inclusions in bladder. Elevated antidistemper IgG, IgM .
  2. Mild nondescript diseases shows transient signs often not recognized in early stages, quick recovery, can be confused with kennel cough. The secondary symptoms appear later. I.E. chorea, demyelination, hard pad, nasal symptoms, pneumonia, ocular symptoms K/S and old dog encephalitis.
  3. New Form of Distemper. Relatively rare- adult dog fully vaccinated multiple times breaks with some symptoms of distemper, the exposure factor unknown-possible wild species exposure. May be new strain of distemper.
  4. Vaccine induced type- no pneumonia, no inclusions in body, seizures, and inclusions in brain. No other pathology found upon autopsy. Elisa tests for Distemper antibody of CSF (+), No inclusions in the bladder, no inclusions in conjunctiva. Do not use Distemper / Parvo combination Vaccines. Some dogs suffer from distemper inclusion encephalitis. No treatment that I know of available. Treatment Rx For types 1-2-3. Give lcc per 10pounds plus 1 cc per animal. Three treatments every twelve hours subcutaneously for 3 total treatments. For example 20 lb dog 2 cc + 1 cc Give 3 cc each treatment.
    Give antibiotics for one week to control secondary symptoms of pneumonia. I have had best results with 2 separate antibiotics simultaneously. Give fluids to control shock on initial presentation. In desperate circumstances, in the absence of available serum, Newcastles¹s vaccine can be injected IV, directly into sick dogs. If they are not already severally compromised by the distemper virus they can respond and recover from distemper. Results Complete cessation of all symptoms of distemper in 12-48 hours. Except for secondary bacterial pneumonia which must be treated for at least 7 days.
    It has been my observation that animals treated early do not have secondary neurologic symptoms. I would recommend all dogs suspected of distemper have full white cell count, lab work. Run antidistemper antibody IgG, IgM to confirm distemper. An additional test to confirm distemper, do a brush border slide of the bladder transitional epithelium. Stain with Dif-Quick. About 90% of the bladder cells will be positive for inclusions in the early stages of distemper. Rarely inclusions can be seen in the red cells. I have never seen inclusions in the conjunctiva. An IFA test of the conjunctiva to test for inclusions is available. I have no experience with this test. It is best to initiate all the tests and then give serum. Wait for the test results after treating. If wrong no adverse reactions if right you are ahead of the game for stopping the virus. Dogs can be treated later in the disease, after 4 to 6 days, but the serum will not undo viral damage that has already taken place. It is therefore best to treat in the early stages, or with the first acute symptoms. Dogs already showing neurologic effects of the distemper virus cannot be helped.

If anybody has any questions please feel free to contact me. E-Mail -

It works…but mine were not so lucky, it was too late before I found out.
He had no serum at that time. Maybe now?
The other problem is the viral strain required…

If anyone has strong connections with a research University/ Institute…
Many animals could be saved.

[quote=“Jive Turkey”]
Another poster was upset about a rescued animal not having the chance to pee or poop in the clinic. This is actually pretty normal and not really the vet’s fault. Most strays are only comfortable doing their business in grass or shrubs. Our dog Lucky just cannot do it indoors. If a vet has any grassy areas nearby, you might ask him to take the dog there a couple of times a day, or you could come by to take him out yourself.[/quote]

That was lupillus and it’s ridiculous considering that the clinic she went to was DIRECTLY across from a park. DA AN park to be precise. :unamused: I’m glad she posted that experience on here. I’ve been using them since I got my dog Chocky, and when he got his snip, he was very aggressive when it came time to getting him back. Also, whenever I go, I have never seen the good doc himself, but only his students. He likes to make his appearances, and use his English :unamused: but otherwise, I believe he’s in the back looking at porn. LOLOL

As for the Tianmu clinic, it didn’t look ‘clean’ enough when I was there on Sunday.

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jive Turkey”]
Another poster was upset about a rescued animal not having the chance to pee or poop in the clinic. This is actually pretty normal and not really the vet’s fault. Most strays are only comfortable doing their business in grass or shrubs. Our dog Lucky just cannot do it indoors. If a vet has any grassy areas nearby, you might ask him to take the dog there a couple of times a day, or you could come by to take him out yourself.[/quote]

That was lupillus and it’s ridiculous considering that the clinic she went to was DIRECTLY across from a park. Da’an park to be precise. :unamused: I’m glad she posted that experience on here. I’ve been using them since I got my dog Chocky, and when he got his snip, he was very aggressive when it came time to getting him back. Also, whenever I go, I have never seen the good doc himself, but only his students. He likes to make his appearances, and use his English :unamused: but otherwise, I believe he’s in the back looking at porn. LOLOL

As for the Tianmu clinic, it didn’t look ‘clean’ enough when I was there on Sunday.[/quote]

No, the one I was talking about is not cardiovet. All I know about them is that they’re expensive. The vet I don’t like is right by Guting MRT exit one. They’re very very popular.

There’s no way denying a dog the chance to go to the bathroom for three whole days can be justified. He is to blame as far as I am concerned. Even if they had just let him go out the door, he would have done his business. I know cause that’s the first thing he did when I picked him up. Run outside their door to pee. For a really really long time.

I had the same problem with my desexed female cat, now already about 6,5 years of age. I had her spayed at a vet in Chung Ho (I think it is called Shuang Ho Animal Hospital) when she was about 7 months old. She continued to periodically go into heat. Not sure if you know, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to sleep when you have a female cat in heat. The “meowing” does not stop and it is EXTREMELY LOUD. I went back to the vet to ask why this is happening, and he said that the hormones need time to settle. This was already more than a year after the operation. He demonstrated (on a rescued kitten I brought in) what to do and I nearly fainted. He showed me how I shoud insert a cotton bud into the cat’s vagina to stimulate and satisfy her. I decided that I would just not sleep for the rest of our time together here on earth.

Then one day, I was walking around in the neighborhood, found another vet in the area (DeHo Road) who could speak better English and asked him for advice. He said I should bring my cat in for a hormone injection. I was back very shortly with the cat and I slept very well that night. The hormone injection is called depo-promone. And she has received a couple of these shots every few months.

2 years ago I moved to Tienmu. Dr Simon Kuo was able to provide my cat with this shot, Dr Yang in Tienmu East Road was not. He said that they don’t keep it in stock because it is not widely used.

I decided to do some reading about desexed cats still going into heat as my understanding was that my cat’s hormones should’ve settled by then. What I found was that this problem can occur if all the ovarian tissue has not been removed and consequently the hormones are still being produced. So what was the suggestions posted by veterinarians? Exploratory study to see if any ovarian tissue has been left over.

With this new found information, I went to 3 of the vets in my area to state my case. I did not mention to any of them what I read about exploratory study. Only 1 of the 3 actually mentioned that to me. It was Kelly at Stone Animal Hospital in Shidong Road. She is a young doctor but very knowledgable and informative. She even allowed me to watch the operation.

And the good news is …

I have been sleeping soundly ever since.