I don’t doubt it. That’s why I couldn’t have imagined it.
Interesting study maowang.
Here in Okinawa, there is a prevailing theory that many Okinawans, such as those from Yaeyama, Ishigaki, Miyako, etc. became bosses or masters of Taiwanese subjects in Taiwan. I question this, as Okinawa was colonized only a few years before Taiwan was. I suspect that the higher-ups came down from Kyushu, Shikoku and Honshu. Did you hear anything about where the Japanese came from??
kickstand -
another interesting comment. I have not heard my friends comment on the origins of the Japonese nationals they dealt with. I will mention this and see if they have any memories on this subject.
Thanks.
[quote=“lane119”]
You are right. Compared to Korea and China, it went so well here. WHY? Someone could write a good PHD thesis on this. Would make a great book too. You the writer?[/quote]
I’m coming to this post a little late, but here’s my 2 cents’ worth. Try John Dower’s book, “The Abacus and the Sword” (I think it was John Dower; all my books are in storage). It’s about the Japanese empire, including Korea and Manchuria, and goes into Japanese motives, expectations, and methods of administering their “colonies.”
BTW, one reason the Koreans were so badly treated was that they resisted passionately. The Japanese weren’t shy about trying to exterminate Korean culture, or resistors. Plus the Koreans had a previous experience of Japanese invasion in the 16th century, which ended in the Japanese being repulsed; but they took trophies, in the form of thousands of Korean’s severed ears, which they buried in a kind of memorial back in Japan. I haven’t been there, but I understand it still exists.
It did not go “so well” there. There were numerous rebellions and fairly large scale killings of both Han Taiwanese and aboriginals, especially in the beginning; 228 is nothing compared to those. But Japan had more time and was thus more successful in Taiwan to cultivate a generation of highly Japanized collaborators who think like Japanese and who to this day fondly recall the “good old days” (as Japanese) and look down on anything Chinese. Of course then they aren’t going to honestly talk about what for most was actually brutal life as third-class citizens under Japan. Somehow, LTH comes to mind.
True, but probably no worse than what Chinese were suffering on the mainland–and in most cases, not as severe.
Highly questionable. Japanese influence began at the same time in Korea, and the peninsula became a full-fledged protectorate less than a decade after Taiwan was absorbed.
Begs the question, what’s supposed to be so good about the Chinese anyway? (From the perspective of a Taiwanese of that generation.) If my country were overrun by two different sets of foreigners, I might well prefer the ones that weren’t illiterate lice-infested goons.
Maybe because the Chinese weren’t foreigners (from the perspective of a Taiwanese of that generation at the time of retrocession) and didn’t kill nearly as many Taiwanese as the Japanese did? Maybe because the Taiwanese populace were themselves in large portions illiterate betel chewing hicks and not the fewer urban Japanized colloborators whose perspective on Chinese you quote?
Memories of the Japanese colonial experience that have been brought up here all display a heavy sense of selective recollection. For all the lop-sided peasant narratives drawn up here to lionize the Japanese occupation (I am quite aware of this tactic, the CCP uses the same) there exists another truth to the Japanese experience. The countryside where the Japanese whip was felt the lighest is a sharp contrast to the cities where the inequalities and resentments of the colonial system were ubiquitous. As I mentioned earlier in another post. Those on Taiwan who had the most interaction with the Japanese while at the same time benefiting the most also were the most alienated by their colonial masters. A peasant in the countryside is a simple man and will have simple views. A more critical eye is perhaps neccessary, yes?
Just a remark on the condition of newly arrived Nationalist troops on Taiwan. It would be perhaps significant to recall that these were veterans of an 8 year long existential war and bore the markings of this conflict and the beginnings of another one. The Taiwanese knew “of” war but did not know what it was to truly experience it. While the Japanese garrison in Taiwan had never witnessed actual combat and were instead dressed in pressed crisp uniforms. The “illiterate lice-infested goons” comment could just as easily be used to describe the conditions Japanese forces in regular theatres of warfare (i.e. China, Indochina, Phillipines, Malaya, etc).
zeugmite-
The people who I have been intermittenly having this discussion with are quite far from your characterization of them as -[quote=“zeugmite”]"… that the Taiwanese populace were themselves in large portions illiterate betel chewing hicks? The perspective you are quoting is exactly that of the generation of Japanized colloborators, mainly the urban Japanophiles."[/quote]Nor do they fit your description of -[quote=“zeugmite”]"… highly Japanized collaborators who think like Japanese and who to this day fondly recall the “good old days” (as Japanese) and look down on anything Chinese."[/quote]
The people are retired, or semi-retired, professionals, educators and in a few cases sucessful business persons. They are quite informed of the history, as written by all sides and their place in what has happened in Taiwan. They were then and remain staunch Taiwan loyalists who think of themselves and their families as historically and currently Taiwanese and not Chinese or Japonophiles.
Your characterization is not very accurate. But I do thank you for bringing this thread back to light. I just had a delightful dinner with this group last night. I need to continue my chats along this line with them.
A few more interesting Q’s have been suggested.
Every TI narrative that is out there does not miss every opportunity to take some pot shots to show how “inferior” the TIers think mainland Chinese were (and by extension, are). I think it’s totally irrelevant except to show their own Japanized biases.
A racist may not self-characterize as a racist. A dictator may not self-characterize as a dictator. A racist or dictator may not even intend to be a racist or a dictator, respectively.
It doesn’t have to be negative, but some things are internalized, such as thinking like a Japanese and taking on Japanese biases, by receiving a Japanese education. When we are talking about that generation of people (not the middle aged baby boomer generation), we go by their actions and words, not what they believe to be the meaning of their actions and words.
Which again begs the question, what’s wrong with being a Japanophile, and (if forced to make a choice) preferring the Japanese over the Chinese? I’ve spoken to so many rabid, spittle-spewing propenents of the Greater Chinese lebensraum who speak as if liking Japan ipso facto proves the evil of Lee Teng-hui and others of his generation, when to me (and probably to most Taiwanese) that’s far from self-evident.
shrug So he likes Japan and looks fondly back on colonial days, so what? The Japanese brought a lot of good to this island, and Taiwan would have been a lot worse off if it had been left under the heel of the decaying Qing empire and the warlords who came after.
Also,
Given that the Japanese instituted a system of compulsory education that lasted 50 years, I think it’s safe to say that literacy among the Taiwanese was much higher than among the bedraggled mainland conscripts that made their way to the island.
It doesn’t prove that he is “evil.” It proves he is a Japanophile. Who said “evil?” Hypocrite, maybe. Maybe you should find out why some people right here deny that LTH is a Japanophile as if there is something wrong with being a Japanophile. You should ask them what’s wrong, not me.
Hypocricy is all I am calling. The KMT brought a lot of good to Taiwan, too. Taiwan was better under KMT than would have been under CCP. Does LTH or any of those Japanophiles say the same about KMT? No.
I would like to point out that the KMT and Japan period of rule were similar in terms political teaching (trying the assimilate the residents of Taiwan into a new political structure) and suppression of the Minnan Chinese dialect.
Here is ROC official statement on the period.
[quote]http://www.gio.gov.tw/info/taiwan-story/education/edown/3-1.htm
Education changed dramatically following the end of the Sino-Japanese War of 1895, when the Ching court ceded Taiwan to Japan under the Treaty of Shimonoseki (Makuan). Japan implemented a colonial education policy aimed at assimilation, systematically suppressing traditional Chinese education, in support of Japanese language and values. Western-style elementary education was provided beginning in 1898 and was later extended to secondary and higher levels. However, Taiwanese children had limited opportunities to receive education, far less than Japanese children in Taiwan. Segregation was adopted in the school system, while discrimination and inequality were reflected in educational policies.[/quote]
In addition I would like to point out this pretty well researched paper from Japan.
[quote]Japanese Colonial Education in Taiwan 1895-1919;
Precepts and Practices of Control
educ.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~koma/taiwanpaper.htm[/quote]
Since the author request that the work not be cited unless permitted I would like to run through some interesting facts that can be found in the work.
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Japan dislike the use of the term “Colony” for fear of being associated European colonizer in Asia. Japan want to be perceived as better than the Europeans, especially Britain.
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Many Chinese rejected entering the Japanese schools in the beginning due to mistrust stemming from harsh treatment from the Japanese military and police.
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Based on Goto Simpei reports it wasn’t till 1909 that Japan was able to suppress all the native uprisings in Taiwan. Although no official numbers are given, it would seem intuitive that the deaths were many and the method of suppression harsh over the course of 14 years.
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With the establishment of ROC 1911, there was a figure Luo Fu-shin from Taiwan that tried to overthrow the Japanese government. He was capture in 1913 and executed. His death sparks 5 more rebellions against the Japanese from 1912 to 1916. Once again the we can only assume a great many died under harsh measures.
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Wealthy Taiwanese successfully petition for middle school education after successfully collaborating with the Japanese in suppressing the aborigines. In addition it is mentioned a great many Taiwanese could not afford secondary education. The authors cite this gain of secondary education was at the expense of Taiwanese coolies and aboriginals.
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The Emporor Cult is used as a religion to ingrain the Japanese identity among the Chinese natives on Taiwan.
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There was institutional racism against the Chinese in the Japanese education system on Taiwan. Although some allowances were made during the period, it is quite obvious to the reader they were done for political reasons to prevent further uprisings on the island.
Of course most Taiwanese today did not live through the harsher period of Japanese rule and are recollecting a more stable environment of colonialization.
Um, no, 'cause when was Taiwan ever under the CCP?
As to whether Taiwan was better off under the KMT vs. the Japanese, I think it’s a moot point. It’s far better that they be under no foreign regime at all. Now just to wait for the CCP to get the message. 
I have frequently heard and read pro-China people seeth about Lee Teng-hui being a “Japanese House Slave”. What, they meant that in an approving kind of way? And it’s odd if anyone here would deny that Lee’s a Japanophile, since he (and many Taiwanese of his generation) proudly proclaim it firsthand. You guys, on the other hand, hiss that because the guy had heart surgery in Japan “The heart of the man is Japanese, need I say more” :loco:
Currently, nobody wants to put Taiwan under a foreign regime, least of all the CCP. Reunification is not recolonization. That association is extreme and false.
That’s what the KMT said back in 1945! And then came 2-28. 
Also, pls see my edited quote above about Lee being a “Japanese House Slave”
Isn’t this statement somewhat misleading.
I think it is best to say the ROC has given the Hoklo community and all the other ethnic groups on Taiwan equal opportunities to pursue political power on Taiwan, which was not the case under the Japanese, which I adeptly pointed out in the research paper cited.
ROC needs leadership that has the best interest of Taiwan, ROC in mind. Those that are too affiliated with Japan, USA or PRC will not act in the best interest of Taiwan, ROC. That is true for any nation.
I hope people will bear that in mind when discussing politics.
Back on topic. The ties that bind TIers and Japanophiles.
It has already been shown here that LTH is a Japanophile who uses his Japanese credentials to present the TI (Taidu) ideology.
Below I present two more exhibits to further show how TIers and Japanophiles go hand in hand. I also believe it is fair to use TIers as the tip of the iceberg for Taiwan society in general, since they seem to have a monopoly on the “Taiwan consciousness” narrative, which is to say, they believe (however incredibly) that they and only they represent the true and majority view of Taiwan.
Exhibit A: The following picture shows the bag of a shop in Tamsui that uses the non-existent “Republic of Taiwan” name as address instead of ROC. The shop owner is reportedly very popular with TIer customers.
taiwanus.net/james/img/3cj.jpg (this is from an overseas TIer web site)
At the top of the bag is a a sentence indicating the year in which the shop was opened (1935), but instead of using the standard ROC naming scheme, or simply 1935, it uses “Showa Year 10,” Showa AKA Emperor of Japan Michinomiya Hirohito who reigned from 1926-1989 and who directed Japan’s colonization and WWII period. Hirohito is the equivalent of Hitler to most Asians.
Exhibit B: In the following picture, TSU members burn the PRC flag in front of the Legislative Yuan, in response to the Anti-Secession Law.
ca.c.yimg.jp/news/1110798306/img … ew-001.jpg
Notice that the sign in the back is written in Japanese (…侵略の日). The Japanese grammatical particle “no” is the third character.
I mean, I thought TI had nothing to do with glorifying Japan, right?