Violence

I voted serves 'im right before reading Lorettas post carefully.

[quote=“Loretta”]
This is not about animal rights or sport. Please don’t discuss the bullfighting. I’m interested here in knowing people’s attitudes to violence towards people. Specifically, do people ‘deserve’ to be hurt?[/quote]

But I don’t know how you can answer this question without basing your response on some kind of behavior, such as participating in a cruel death-sport like bull-fighting. Loretta seems to be asking whether or not people ever deserve to be hurt.

I might say no, most people on the street, even violent jerks, don’t deserve to be hurt, they and those around them deserve protection. The only person who deserves to be hurt is a child who has done something very dangerous to him or herself, and needs an immediate and powerful lesson to protect them from future harm. But even in this case, the question still refers to be based on the person’s actions to come up with an answer about deserving to be hurt.

I’d add that anyone who enters into an agreement in which certain actions entail certain kinds of suffering (including SM and dangerous sports) and then performs those actions (being naughty or losing) “deserves” to get what they know they must get in those circumstances.

Anyway, considering Loretta’s original post, I think I’d change my vote to “Poor man, and poor bull”.

I was toen between work risks and poor man/bull.

As Loretta mentioned in the previous post, this is a cultural thing(that I pesonally don’t like but that is beside the point). The man does not see what he is doing as wrong because that is the culture he grew up in.
I was shocked the first time I ever met an Australian and learned that kangaroos were killed and eaten. As shocked as he was to hear what a delicious meal seal flipper pie is. Neither one of us could understand the other’s disbelief of the cruel things these savages in far away lands did.

OMG! A Newfie! :laughing:

You got it! :smiley:

[quote=“navillus”]
I was shocked the first time I ever met an Australian and learned that kangaroos were killed and eaten. As shocked as he was to hear what a delicious meal seal flipper pie is. Neither one of us could understand the other’s disbelief of the cruel things these savages in far away lands did.[/quote]

Huh? How is killing a kangaroo different from say a cow for food? Why would you be shocked by this? They are considered a pest… so we shoot them and turn them into sausages and sell them to China. Its not some cultural thing, its a practical solution. The bullfight is playing with an animals life purely for sport…just like cock fights which in every 1st world country are simply banned!

Can you see the difference between the two? As for seal flipper and the “scientific hunting” of whales… its just unacceptable. As these are (most probably) endangered.

I’ve never actually worked out how a native animal in its native land can be considered a pest.

[quote=“Tyc00n”]

Huh? How is killing a kangaroo different from say a cow for food? Why would you be shocked by this? They are considered a pest… so we shoot them and turn them into sausages and sell them to China. Its not some cultural thing, its a practical solution. The bullfight is playing with an animals life purely for sport…just like cock fights which in every 1st world country are simply banned!

Can you see the difference between the two? As for seal flipper and the “scientific hunting” of whales… its just unacceptable. As these are (most probably) endangered.[/quote]

This year, upwards of 300 000 seals will be killed because scientists say there are so many. Far from endangered I think. I don’t have time to count them myself, so I’ll have to take their word for it.

When I first learned of the killing of kangaroos I was a little shocked. I’d never even seen a kangaroo outside of a TV set, but after my Aussie friend explained their abundance and how they destroyed crops I thought it was acceptable. Tycoon, I don’t quite understand how you so easily justify the killing of kangaroos and just as easily say the killing of seals is “just unacceptable” . Just as kanaroos are a pest to farmers, seals are a pest to fishermen. Seals eat fish and if the population is left to explode, the fish will disappear.

The “cultural” thing is what you consider acceptable. In Taiwan, they eat just about everything that can move, but kids are repulsed when I tell them back home we eat seals and rabbits. (“Teacher, you are bad man” one little girl said to me). Now, I honestly see nothing wrong with killing any animal for food if the population is healthy. I do have some problems with the way animals are kept and slaughtered, but that’s another story. As for the bullfighting I agree that it is wrong, but the guy in the photo has been raised to think that it is not wrong.

With that matador stuck onto that horn, the good thing is that other people can get close to the bull without having to worry about that side being sharp and dangerous.

I think the lesson we can all take home from this is that there ought to be bullfight clowns, just as there are rodeo clowns. Because everybody deserves a good laugh to distract them from all the blood and gore.

If someone said something like this:[quote]What’s wrong with being barbarians anyways, that’s what we are, why not celebrate it?[/quote]Then I’d say it serves him right. Either it’s a bull’s horn in his ass or a broken beer bottle on his head. You like to be a barbarian, then pay the price that comes with it. What goes around comes around. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to understand that either.

Now of course that’s disregarding things like compassion and forgiveness however the bull in the picture doesn’t have forgiveness or compassion. “Do people deserve to be hurt?” What a stupid question. I’ll ask my eight years old students the same and I’ll tell you what their answers are, you might just be enlightened.

BTW, if you don’t want people to discuss bullfights, why in hell did you post that pic? There are so many other times when people get hurt and in far bigger numbers. How about pictures of soldiers?

Carry on now…

bobepine

[quote=“Loretta”][color=blue]This is not about animal rights or sport. Please don’t discuss the bullfighting[/color].I’m interested here in knowing people’s attitudes to violence towards people. Specifically, do people ‘deserve’ to be hurt?
[/quote]

I’ve delved around for some examples that might help, the first one of bullfighting seems a distraction from an interesting topic.

I think the last one is Tyson and Hollyfield. Tyson was losing and also hungry so he ate Hollyfields ear.

The only time where I felt so strongly that some one deserved it (other than the Darwin award stories) happened in high school. 2 cars full of students totally drunk off their ass, drag racing their cars down a straightaway road in town middle of the night. It just so happens that this road is lined with huge trees, oaks that are the width of cars. You see where I’m going with this?

So these Darwin award winners, drag racing their cars (1 was a Chevy Chevette) down the road bumped into each other and careened off the road into these oak trees. 100-150 year old oak trees don’t move. Brain matter all over the road, compressed cars, decapitation, crushed bodies, the whole nine yards.

When I heard the story the next day in school, my reaction was I laughed and said “They deserved it.” To this day, I still do.

Wow, Cartman. You must be very strongly in favor of the death penalty for convicted killers if you think a bunch of kids doing stupid things deserve to die. So let’s say they didn’t crash but got arrested, did they still deserve to die? NO ONE deserves to die.

Yeah, but we all gotta go sometime. Somebody oughta sue God.

You could introduce YC to your grandmother and she’d say “He seems like such a nice boy”

There must be more to the story. Did they beat the crap out of you at some stage?

I’m a supporter of capital punishment yes.

You could introduce YC to your grandmother and she’d say “He seems like such a nice boy”

There must be more to the story. Did they beat the crap out of you at some stage?[/quote]

No, sorry to disappoint…that is it to the story. When you do knowingly do things that will most likely end in a very bad ending (i.e death, mayhem etc), and you do it anyways, then you deserve to reap those consequences. Life is too short, don’t do it on stupid things. If you do, then you deserve those consequences. You do it, you’re responsible and accountable for your actions. No one else. It’s a very simple concept but people can’t seem to grasp it. YMMV.

EDIT: And yes, I’ve been known by some to be a cold-hearted bastard. Such is life.

I’ve never actually worked out how a native animal in its native land can be considered a pest.[/quote]

Even in their natural environment, you can still get excessive numbers, especially when the previous control (bushfires) are limited by the cutting down of forests / controlled burning and fire breaks.

Also, wouldn’t you consider cockroaches a pest in every country?

In the case where there are too many seals, then I think its acceptable to cull them. However, there is a danger that if you create a demand for a certain product (shark fin soup for example), that after the cull has reduced the population to a normal level, the demand will remain or increase and potentiall endanger the species at a later time.

As for sympathy for the bullfighter (I know, I know… :offtopic: ), when I look at that picture, all I see is the bull’s front left leg covered in blood with another stream of blood pouring from its side onto the ground.

People who get killed when killing animals for sport are simply getting just desserts…blame it on mother nature, God, or Charles Darwin, but I think they deserve it.

When someone makes a consciously stupid choice in a normal state of mind (like getting into a car with a drunk behind the wheel), they deserve what they get.

The problem is, most people are not willing to accept the consequences of their choices and the government (or at least in the US) gives them fewer and fewer opportunities to deal with those consequences because they are too busy making up all sorts of laws to keep people from making stupid choices. For instance, helmet laws. If some yokel wants to drive a 150cc scooter at 80 km/h through a red light on a rainy day and doesn’t want to wear a helmet, then let his brains be road graffiti.

I say, let Darwin rule and clean the genetic pool.

You could introduce YC to your grandmother and she’d say “He seems like such a nice boy”

There must be more to the story. Did they beat the crap out of you at some stage?[/quote]

No, sorry to disappoint…that is it to the story. When you do knowingly do things that will most likely end in a very bad ending (i.e death, mayhem etc), and you do it anyways, then you deserve to reap those consequences. Life is too short, don’t do it on stupid things. If you do, then you deserve those consequences. You do it, you’re responsible and accountable for your actions. No one else. It’s a very simple concept but people can’t seem to grasp it. YMMV.

EDIT: And yes, I’ve been known by some to be a cold-hearted bastard. Such is life.
[/quote]

So you’ve never done anything stupid and dangerous before, that in a certain context could be regarded in the same way as those teenagers in a car? Almost everyone I know with a personality has done something life endangering before.

But, that is beside the point. YC is not saying that he would not deserve the consequences for any act that he committed that might have been stupid. He did not exclude himself from his opinion.