I’m surprised that nobody has brought up soon to be Singaporean PM’s visit to Taiwan and the subsequent rants from the PRC. I’m quite curious about why Lee Hsien Loong made the visit. Under his father and Goh, Singapore has been getting colder and colder toward Taiwan, with some people saying that Singapore would soon end its military training arrangements with Taiwan. That now seems to be changing. After the visit, the Singapore government has been surprisingly firm in its responses to Beijing’s rants. Just what is Singapore up to?
[Deputy Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong opinion of Taiwan
My opinion is he raised a few quite sensible points - which can all be boiled down to “It’s good to talk” (which can be quite difficult with pressure from the PRC). My assumption is that that is why he risked the ire of the PRC to visit - he thinks that all the parties should be talking to each other, so he wants to talk to all the parties. (Doesn’t mean a change in policy by Singapore, but does mean they’re willing to listen)
I think the Deputy Prime Minister’s comments were quite clear.
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Face up to the reality that everyone has realigned with the PRC, even the USA.
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Face up to the reality that with limited resources on Taiwan, we should focus on developing the society positively, and have a mature democracy that is not only interested in garnering votes at all cost.
The new PM spelled out his take on “one China,” etc., and it’s not good for Taiwan:
[quote]Singapore’s ‘One China’ policy will not change. A move by Taiwan towards independence is neither in Singapore’s nor the region’s interest. If Taiwan goes for independence, Singapore will not recognise it. In fact, no Asian country will recognise it. Nor will European countries. China will fight. Win or lose, Taiwan will be devastated. Unfortunately, I met only very few Taiwanese leaders who understood this. The problem is that it will not just be Taiwan that will be badly damaged. It will be a grave setback for the whole region. Our hopes for China to emerge peacefully and for the region to prosper through trade, investment and tourism will be shattered.
In any case, it would be the height of absurdity for Singapore to quarrel with China over Taiwan. The cross-strait issue is not a permanent problem. It will sooner or later be resolved - either sooner, if matters come to a head when Taiwan amends its Constitution, or eventually, if the situation evolves peacefully over two or three decades. China will continue to grow and Taiwan’s economy will progressively be integrated with China’s. This process is inexorable; there can be no other final outcome.
I came back from Taiwan more troubled than before I went…[/quote]
The entire article. (Read it before it disappears.)
This is to be expected from Singapore’s PM. Who is buying some of the KMT’s television stations in Taiwan – the Singaporean government. The new prime minister is just showing that he is indeed LKY’s son. However, I think we will see new dissent in the Lion City. Lee Hsien Loong is not well liked within the PAP apparatus. He has a reputation of being arrogant and, in a well-reported incident, slapped a fellow cabinet minister in the face a few years back. His ex-wife killed herself in shady circumstances, and his meteoric rise just shows the dynastic nature of Singapore’s authoritarian regime. Singapore is afraid of the emerging “Taiwan” identity. They are afraid that Singapore’s own races will start to become self-conscious. That is why they keep the “internal security act” on the books, right? I for one would love to see this type of balkanization occur in Singapore – if it means ending the power of LKY inc.
Well if that isn’t advocating the formenting ethnic strife chewycorns I don’t know what is. Anyways your entire arguement is built atop your own imagination. Singapore afraid of emerging “Taiwan” identity? LOL. Kind of like how the PRC fears Manchu separatism…
Singapore’s races becoming self-conscious? What kind of pot are you smokeing cause I want some.
A Balkinization of Singapore? Jesus Chewycorns think for a moment before you speak. Singapore is one single city with a population of approximately 4 million. How can balkinization even be possible when everyone lives cramped in one city? Don’t tell me you expect the singapore government to dissappear and the city divided up into quarters ruled by ethnic street gangs alas Mad Max?
By the way, Singapore is nearly 80% ethnic Chinese with the remainder mostly Malay and Indian. Please explain to how the Singapore government is afraid of racial self-consciousness when Singapore, unlike its neighbors Malaysia and Indonesia, has been able to avoid ethnic strife. Explain how the Indians and Malays will be able to “balkanize a city”?
I swear to god Taidu idiocy on this forum is contagious.
[quote=“cmdjing”]
I swear to god Taidu idiocy on this forum is contagious.[/quote]
As opposed to blind adherence to PRC propaganda in the face of all reason or contrary evidence? Fuck off back to CNA if you don’t like it.
hsiadogah,
What about the 78% of ROC citizens that don’t support Taidu. So we should also fuck off and move to China.
Wow how demcratic everyone who is not in line with English speaking Taidu supporters should fuck off. Because true Taiwanese only communicate in English you understand.
Where should the other 98% of Taiwan population move to…Canada.
[quote]Singapore’s new Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong outlined his vision for the city-state Sunday, vowing to deliver on his call for a more open society by easing restrictions on free speech in the famously strait-laced country.
Lee, who was sworn in as leader ten days ago, said public speakers would no longer be required to get police permits to express themselves inside buildings, unless they wanted to talk about religion or race…
.
“The police have now decided to exempt indoor talks from licensing requirements, unless they touch on sensitive issues such as race and religion,” Lee added.[/quote]
That seems to explain itself- as to why they might be sensitive about the issue of racial or religious self-consciousness among Malays…
Hint, hint- who are their neighbours?
[quote=“MikeN”]
That seems to explain itself- as to why they might be sensitive about the issue of racial or religious self-consciousness among Malays…
Hint, hint- who are their neighbours?[/quote]Last time I was in KL the huachiao there were both very condescending to, and afraid of, the Malays. I get the feeling those in Singapore are a lot more confident.
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“MikeN”]
That seems to explain itself- as to why they might be sensitive about the issue of racial or religious self-consciousness among Malays…
Hint, hint- who are their neighbours?[/quote]Last time I was in KL the huachiao there were both very condescending to, and afraid of, the Malays. I get the feeling those in Singapore are a lot more confident.[/quote]
Yeah, I’m sure they are. OTOH, unlike, say, Maggie Thatcher, they’re smart enough to want to avoid unnecessarily pissing off the guys with the hands on their water supply.
[quote]Hong Kong yesterday disputed criticism from Singapore founding father Lee Kuan Yew that the Chinese territory suffered because its interests are subordinated to Beijing’s, boasting instead that the territory had unparalleled access to the mainland market.
Lee said in a Friday speech in Singapore that his country is better off than Hong Kong because it is independent.
“We can chart our course for the benefit of 4 million Singaporeans, unlike Hong Kong where the way to the future is decided by China to advance the overall interests of not only 7 million Hong Kongers but also 1,300 million mainlanders,” he said.[/quote]
So, since being controlled by the mainland is the kiss of death, it appears that BabyDoc’s real agenda is to reduce Taiwan to the same dependent status as HK, thus being less of a competitor to Singers.
[quote][quote]Quote:
Hong Kong yesterday disputed criticism from Singapore founding father Lee Kuan Yew that the Chinese territory suffered because its interests are subordinated to Beijing’s, boasting instead that the territory had unparalleled access to the mainland market.
Lee said in a Friday speech in Singapore that his country is better off than Hong Kong because it is independent.
“We can chart our course for the benefit of 4 million Singaporeans, unlike Hong Kong where the way to the future is decided by China to advance the overall interests of not only 7 million Hong Kongers but also 1,300 million mainlanders,” he said. [/quote]
MikeN:So, since being controlled by the mainland is the kiss of death, it appears that BabyDoc’s real agenda is to reduce Taiwan to the same dependent status as HK, thus being less of a competitor to Singers.[/quote]
Not only is MikeN’s knowledge of Singapore/Malaysia fuzzy at best, the above is a total concoction! Yes Mike when did the PM say that? How come no reaction from HK?
MikeN is what Singaporeans would call bei_bi xiao ren (despicably low) and wu chi (shameless); etc… etc…
MikeN is definitely a white foreigner, rarely been to Singapore, knows very little about Singapore… otherwise he would have known how Singaporeans celebrated about 2 national days ago. And because Singaporeans celebrated in that special way about 2 years ago, this earlier statement from him makes even less sense today.
[quote]…MikeN wrote:
…they’re smart enough to want to avoid unnecessarily pissing off the guys with the hands on their water supply.[/quote]
No Mike you’re wrong, Singaporean do not ever need to worry about water supply again. You didn’t even bother to look up the outcome of the negotiation! which shows how much you care…
Singaporeans tend to dominate their nieghbours and even look to invest in their neighbouring countries in a big way. It is important to be sensitive to racial issues but Dr Mahathir has said more about Malays than any Chinese in Singapore or Malaysia for at least a century. The Chinese are lucky they have him.
how can one be condescending at the same time as afraid - I suppose you mean to the same party? I guess Hsiadogah’s huachiao friends must be rather wierd if to the same party. I would also tend to say Chinese Singaporeans or Malays are condescending towards Malay but amongst themselves the Singaporean tend to be condescending towards Malaysian Chinese. Taiwanese are to a certain degree condescending towards mainlanders. American born Chinese are somewhat condescending to new immigrants or mainlanders in the US at least when I was there. So I guess this condescension is not necessarily a racial thing.
Imagine a Hong Kong person reading this(above)… and then this (below) …( Assuming of course that Lee actually did say it)
[quote]Lee said in a Friday speech in Singapore that his country is better off than Hong Kong because it is independent.
“We can chart our course for the benefit of 4 million Singaporeans, unlike Hong Kong where the way to the future is decided by China to advance the overall interests of not only 7 million Hong Kongers but also 1,300 million mainlanders,” he said.[/quote]
In Hong Kong most reaction would be, "Oh it a pity Singapore still has to register to have “free” speech. We don’t even bother unless the venue is going to stop traffic or cause some other public nuisance - in which case we negotiate with the police for the duration of our speeches and how much traffic must be diverted and so on. In HK we can criticise and even make fun of the CEO, Tung CHee Hua — and downwards, all day and all night if necessary on radio and in the newspaper ( Is this possible with Chan Shui Bian? not really)…In Singapore you can still go to jail dead poor; or have to emigrate to Austalia etc… etc…Free speech in Hong Kong is even better than Taiwan which has a pseudo democracy! Hong Kong introduced “doggy team reporting” to Taiwan. And this is what happened: Next Media office in Taiwan got bombed by the Taiwan’s triad or mafia because the upper echelon cannot stand being reported. In Hong Kong we actually speak louder if anyone attempts to silence free speech. We’ve even had people who wouldn’t shut up even under daily death threats. I am of course talking about the famous talk show hosts on Commercail Radio.
Lee Xian Long would never have said this:
This sounds too much like a taidu speech. Singaporeans have enough access to China than they could possibly want . Also Hong Kong’s future is not decided by China because China itself is “undecided”. Singapore may be under “one accord” under dynastic Lee but China is definitely not under Jiang only. China’s present authoratarianism is not one… and Lee understands this. The fate of Taiwan will probably be decided (soon) but not before China has decided which leader has the final say. Several feng shui experts reckon 2006 will be an ominous year. Maybe Taiwan’s fate will be decided before the next Olympics. I am sure the Taidu advocates can’t wait.
[quote=“drambuie”]
how can one be condescending at the same time as afraid - I suppose you mean to the same party? I guess Hsiadogah’s huachiao friends must be rather wierd if to the same party.[/quote]Looking down on the Malays, and nervous about being too obvious about it. Do you need everything spelled out for you?
[quote]The fate of Taiwan will probably be decided (soon) but not before China has decided which leader has the final say. Several feng shui experts reckon 2006 will be an ominous year. Maybe Taiwan’s fate will be decided before the next Olympics. I am sure the Taidu advocates can’t wait.[/quote]I’m very sorry that your bitterness over being swallowed by the PRC has made you wish the same for the Taiwanese. Too bad you can’t muster the goodwill to support Taiwan’s right to self-determination.
And all that bollocks about the press being afraid to go after A-Bian or the DPP government? wtf are you talking about? :loco: Hello, have you seen any Taiwan TV or papers in the last 4 years? :raspberry:
hi, guys… my first post here… as this thread had caught my post, so decided to start shed some light as i am indeed a Singaporean. So I maybe able to answer some of the questions over here…
First of all, chewycorns, based on your past few post, you seems like you really have a deep misunderstanding with Singapore… maybe i could help?? rest assure, i am no government agent trying to slam our internal security act on you… hehehe…
as for the water case, sorry to say, but drambuie, the water treaty have not been settled yet but we won’t be worried as the treaty will be on till 2067. you seems to know a lot about Singapore, are you one too?? hehehe…hope to see some from the same country as well…
bascially, i think this is an indeed a bad move from our PM but he had already stated that this is private visit to meet former friends so i think that the PRC is too sensitive on this issue as due to the tensions between the two straits, so PRC need to stress the point to warn all other country about this issue and at the same time send a clear msg to Mr Chen not to try anything funny as they will have no support in the international commitee…
all the above view as my personal opinions and does not reflect the stand of the government or any website… hehe… just my 2 cents worth… kindly let me know if i said anything wrong… hehehe… 
tymebomb,
Just express some sympathy to the Taidu faction on Taiwan and you’ll be on good grounds on this board.
okie… but maybe i miss out some of those history, but what is ‘taidu’? don’t seems to make out any meaning for me?? can someone enlightened on this?? hehehe thanks…
and my kudos for the taidu faction… 
hehehe
Tai Du 台毒 - Is Taiwan Drug issue.
Fan Du 反毒 - Is Taiwan Anti-Drug Campaign.
Support Fan Du for our children’s tomorrow.
But always show sympathy for the victims of Taidu.
okie… i see… my sympathy for them…and maybe someone be able to help them…