Hi Ken, I removed some of the content of your post because it was inflammatory. I get that you disagree with with redwagon and others about Taichung, but you have to watch your language. I thought about sending you a warning, but in the end I just tidied up your post. Since you object, let me take this opportunity to point out the rules: forumosa.org/forum-rules/ 
Ken, I don’t intend to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. I will leave you with a nice proverb from Hungary.
If three men tell you that you are drunk, lie down.
Point is, most of us love Taiwan, even sad, unsightly Taichung, but we – or I; I shouldn’t speak for others – want to see it improve so we can all enjoy life here more. There’s no need to defend Taichung’s honor – it’s going to continue on in spite of any complaints or criticisms. I’d just like to see my city become, cleaner, more interesting and more livable.
I assume we’d all like the same.
Yep, real citizens look to improve their city and accept that areas need work, they also look at what other cities do well and learn from that. Ken, I think your reaction is stereotypical Taiwanese…always afraid to show the bad parts, afraid of losing face…we need to talk about the bad parts so we can improve on them! You shouldn’t attack us foreigners who live in Taiwan for so many years…many of us have lived in Taichung longer than you!
I think you should apologise for your bad manners to other posters who are only being polite to you.
I also understand your antagonism to Taipei, I think people in Taipei often ignore the good parts of the rest of Taiwan, thinking they are in the only worthwhile place in Taiwan. But Taipei is not a world class city either, too crowded and messy and run-down, noisy and polluted.
The whole point for this thread is to give tips and guides to the thread initiator “paopaolong” from SF who wants to visit Taichung city and its vicinity as the start, and then Mr. “headhonchoII”, “redwagon”, or some others talk bad/sarcastic about Taichung area with little grounds, maybe those guys never explore the area because of transportation issues (probably even don’t want to spend money on taxi or bus fees when visitng Taichung, that is why…), so lack of the whole view/pictures of the area.If so, it is really a big pity…
For a tourist coming all the way from SF, it is apparent that he would not care about 20 bucks for the transportation fees to sacrifice the quality, for the remote attraction points, buses are available departing from Taichung city (that is another importance of Taichung city for the tourists), it is not a problem. Condemning Taichung to hell and trying to deflect people’s mind to Taipei is either very misleading or ignorant to the facts that middle zone of Taiwan has abundant to see/experience real cultures (Taiwan aboriginals cultures) and scenery (as pointed previously)…Well, those people can’t even state “clear” advantages of Taipei over Taichung, and simply give baised/distorted views to the first comer, that is unbearable and shameful…Taipei is already rated bottom second for living in Taiwan, sadly lack of self-introspection that deters the city improvement might be the cause based on the acts seen here.
Again, I agree Taichung has a lot to improve, and so do others. Nevertheless, it can’t be denied that Taichung city is a good start for many tourists to enjoy their trips in Taiwan. For Taipei, just spending 1~2 days or so on 101, Palace Museum and street sighting will do for a person coming from SF, I think… Sorry, I don’t know how many responders here are faking knowing a lot of Taichung/its vicinity, or even fakingly claiming living in Taichung now but …
[quote=“redwagon”]Ken, I don’t intend to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. I will leave you with a nice proverb from Hungary.
If three men tell you that you are drunk, lie down.[/quote]
redwagon,
I wanna tell you and those bais-thinking guys, “I am telling you the truth as above, and the situation here now is if you can handle the truths in your mind”…" I am fighting for true info for the coming tourists with armory of “knowledge”, and you? "
Taichung would be great if they had this thing called “parking” and “traffic enforcement”. Please talk to your boss about it Kenlu88.
Taichung would be great if they had this thing called “parking” and “traffic enforcement”. Please talk to your boss about it Kenlu88.[/quote]
Maybe he is the boss. :ohreally:
I enjoyed my time in Taichung. If I moved back to the Wan I’d live in Taipei prolly. I’d prefer the big city feel. Or maybe Hualian, for the small city feel.
‘Who’ are you? 
Ken, we are talking about Taichung no? The places you mention are almost all outside Taichung! I’m also sick of your accusations…you need to grow up!
Fixed that for ya. 
A tourist coming to Taiwan for the first time, doesn’t speak Chinese, and you suggest… Taichung!! As the ideal place?
To the OP! LISTEN! This guy is deluded. Seriously deluded.
The best thing you can say about Taichung is… erm… um… nope, sorry. Can’t think of anything at all.
Its not Shalu. That’s about as good as it gets for the Chungle, I’m afraid. It rains less than Taipei, though. Unfortunately, thanks to all the unneeded pork-barrel construction going on all over the city, less rain simply means more dust. MUCH more dust.
And there are night markets all over Taiwan. They’re all pretty much identical. I guess Taipei doesn’t have an unbuilt music hall, although of course it has several world class venues that actually EXIST. Always a plus in my book. The Chungle has a street of “international” restaurants? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Taipei has MANY streets with “international” restaurants.
English sinage for getting about. Is that of importance to you? Forget Taichung in that case.
Honestly, if you want a good Taiwan experience, then base yourself in Taipei and if you feel the need, jump on the High Speed Railway for an hour and visit Taichung for a day or two. Seriously. A day or two at the most will be enough.
For more to do, both inside and outside the city, that you can actually GET to easily, then its Taipei, hands down. There’s simply NO comparison whatever.
Although, now that you’ve seen old Kenny’s posts, you’ll realize that the Chungle has politer people living in it. Not. 
[quote=“sandman”]A tourist coming to Taiwan for the first time, doesn’t speak Chinese, and you suggest… Taichung!! As the ideal place?
To the OP! LISTEN! This guy is deluded. Seriously deluded.
The best thing you can say about Taichung is… erm… um… nope, sorry. Can’t think of anything at all.
Its not Shalu. That’s about as good as it gets for the Chungle, I’m afraid. It rains less than Taipei, though. Unfortunately, thanks to all the unneeded pork-barrel construction going on all over the city, less rain simply means more dust. MUCH more dust.
And there are night markets all over Taiwan. They’re all pretty much identical. I guess Taipei doesn’t have an unbuilt music hall, although of course it has several world class venues that actually EXIST. Always a plus in my book. The Chungle has a street of “international” restaurants? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Taipei has MANY streets with “international” restaurants.
English sinage for getting about. Is that of importance to you? Forget Taichung in that case.
Honestly, if you want a good Taiwan experience, then base yourself in Taipei and if you feel the need, jump on the High Speed Railway for an hour and visit Taichung for a day or two. Seriously. A day or two at the most will be enough.
For more to do, both inside and outside the city, that you can actually GET to easily, then its Taipei, hands down. There’s simply NO comparison whatever.
Although, now that you’ve seen old Kenny’s posts, you’ll realize that the Chungle has politer people living in it. Not. [/quote]
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Based on what you said, you probably would not go to countries like Cambodia, China, Bali, and a lot more…because those countries speak very little English, I bet much worse than the people in Taichung, Taiwan…Well, then you will lose a lot fun if you set that as a must criteria.
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Sorry, trourists coming to Taiwan to feel something they don’t feel previously, not coming here to “speak English”…I am sure Taiwanese are very willing to help out foreign tourists, and you can always find language helpers in those hot attraction spots if you need…
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if the thread initiator intends to experience upscaled city feel, then would suggest him to Singapore or HK, not Taiwan at all !!
Phew. Got a live one here.
Turning me right off [strike]eating square pizzas[/strike] visiting Taichung ever again, I admit, if this is who deals with the city’s PR.
(Sorry to the OP: people in Taiwan are much more civilized than this thread would indicate, and the people of Taichung are mostly quite welcoming.)
It would be a bit like going on vacation to the UK and choosing Birmingham.
[quote=“lostinasia”]Phew. Got a live one here.
Turning me right off [strike]eating square pizzas[/strike] visiting Taichung ever again, I admit, if this is who deals with the city’s PR.
(Sorry to the OP: people in Taiwan are much more civilized than this thread would indicate, and the people of Taichung are mostly quite welcoming.)[/quote]
Well, most foreigners I met are quite civilized, but seem some are not, we can’t ask for perfection, can we? …I am very sure Taiwan welcome most foreigners, but narrow-minded ones surely not welcomed everywhere in the world !- I guess Oops, PS: I could be wrong if you willing to spend much money here…
If there are quite some to see and experience in Birmingham, why not? spending 2-3 days in London probably enough depending on personal needs… 
[quote=“kenlu88”][quote=“sandman”]A tourist coming to Taiwan for the first time, doesn’t speak Chinese, and you suggest… Taichung!! As the ideal place?
To the OP! LISTEN! This guy is deluded. Seriously deluded.
The best thing you can say about Taichung is… erm… um… nope, sorry. Can’t think of anything at all.
Its not Shalu. That’s about as good as it gets for the Chungle, I’m afraid. It rains less than Taipei, though. Unfortunately, thanks to all the unneeded pork-barrel construction going on all over the city, less rain simply means more dust. MUCH more dust.
And there are night markets all over Taiwan. They’re all pretty much identical. I guess Taipei doesn’t have an unbuilt music hall, although of course it has several world class venues that actually EXIST. Always a plus in my book. The Chungle has a street of “international” restaurants? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Taipei has MANY streets with “international” restaurants.
English sinage for getting about. Is that of importance to you? Forget Taichung in that case.
Honestly, if you want a good Taiwan experience, then base yourself in Taipei and if you feel the need, jump on the High Speed Railway for an hour and visit Taichung for a day or two. Seriously. A day or two at the most will be enough.
For more to do, both inside and outside the city, that you can actually GET to easily, then its Taipei, hands down. There’s simply NO comparison whatever.
Although, now that you’ve seen old Kenny’s posts, you’ll realize that the Chungle has politer people living in it. Not. [/quote]
-
Based on what you said, you probably would not go to countries like Cambodia, China, Bali, and a lot more…because those countries speak very little English, I bet much worse than the people in Taichung, Taiwan…Well, then you will lose a lot fun if you set that as a must criteria.
-
Sorry, trourists coming to Taiwan to feel something they don’t feel previously, not coming here to “speak English”…I am sure Taiwanese are very willing to help out foreign tourists, and you can always find language helpers in those hot attraction spots if you need…
-
if the thread initiator intends to experience upscaled city feel, then would suggest him to Singapore or HK, not Taiwan at all !![/quote]
Whatever, dude! Like I even care whether one Taiwanese shithole is better than another Taiwanese shithole.
I mentioned English sinage because like it or not, Taiwan – even, GASP! SHOCK! Taichung!!! is NOT geared up toward tourists from Western countries. At ALL. Therefore, while one can easily get around in Bali or even Cambodia without knowing the language, they find it MUCH more difficult here.
The OP can read these posts and reach his own conclusion. Its HIM I’m writing to, not you. Likewise, its HIM you’re trying to sell the Chungle to, not me. My in-laws are from there, I’ve been going there a few times a month for more than 20 years, and trust me, I KNOW EXACTLY what I’m talking about when it comes to comparing Taipei and Taichung and when it comes to predicting which would the best base for a short-term visitor to Taiwan from the West.
[quote=“kenlu88”][quote=“sandman”]A tourist coming to Taiwan for the first time, doesn’t speak Chinese, and you suggest… Taichung!! As the ideal place?
To the OP! LISTEN! This guy is deluded. Seriously deluded.
The best thing you can say about Taichung is… erm… um… nope, sorry. Can’t think of anything at all.
Its not Shalu. That’s about as good as it gets for the Chungle, I’m afraid. It rains less than Taipei, though. Unfortunately, thanks to all the unneeded pork-barrel construction going on all over the city, less rain simply means more dust. MUCH more dust.
And there are night markets all over Taiwan. They’re all pretty much identical. I guess Taipei doesn’t have an unbuilt music hall, although of course it has several world class venues that actually EXIST. Always a plus in my book. The Chungle has a street of “international” restaurants? Ha! Ha! Ha!
Taipei has MANY streets with “international” restaurants.
English sinage for getting about. Is that of importance to you? Forget Taichung in that case.
Honestly, if you want a good Taiwan experience, then base yourself in Taipei and if you feel the need, jump on the High Speed Railway for an hour and visit Taichung for a day or two. Seriously. A day or two at the most will be enough.
For more to do, both inside and outside the city, that you can actually GET to easily, then its Taipei, hands down. There’s simply NO comparison whatever.
Although, now that you’ve seen old Kenny’s posts, you’ll realize that the Chungle has politer people living in it. Not. [/quote]
- Based on what you said, you probably would not go to countries like Cambodia, China, Bali, and a lot more…because those countries speak very little English, I bet much worse than the people in Taichung, Taiwan…Well, then you will lose a lot fun if you set that as a must criteria.
[/quote]
But that’s not what was said. If someone coming from overseas does not speak Chinese what would be the first place you would recommend to them? Taichung? Really? Are you that unkind?
I share some of your impatience with Taipei-centric thought, but the fact is Taipei & Kaohsiung are just loads more accessible for non-Chinese speakers. You’d ask the OP to tackle the Taichung buses or take taxis without an ability to negotiate Chinese rather than dipping a first toe into Taipei and with its MRT, bus system and clear signage? Why would you do that?
Ditto. Again, we all know how supremely kind many Taiwanese can be to visitors, but some people are shy or prefer to get along by themselves. Taipei is easier & has more for the casual visitor to see than does Taichung. Thems the facts, my friend
[quote]
3) if the thread initiator intends to experience upscaled city feel, then would suggest him to Singapore or HK, not Taiwan at all !![/quote]
Yeah, ok, maybe if all things are neutral but we are talking about someone who intends to visit Taiwan for the first time. Where would you send him/her? Here’s my prioritized list of cities:
- Taipei/Tamsui – easiest place for newcomers to begin their Taiwan experience. Best museums, shops, restaurants; best transportation by far.
- Kaohsiung – also a historic city, 2nd best transportation
- Haulien – best surrounding scenery
- Taichung – some good sites in and around city; transportation hub for central Taiwan
[quote=“sandman”]
The OP can read these posts and reach his own conclusion. Its HIM I’m writing to…[/quote]
Sandy, the OP last checked in on the 9th. I think he has already reached his conclusions about Taichung and it’s inhabitants and (wisely) gotten the hell out of here. I can’t say I blame him. 
Yup. I noticed that too. We’re just debating the appropriateness of Taichung as a place of interest for first-time visitors now. Maybe we can spare some unsuspecting slob from headache and frustration.