Land Rovers are living off of an old reputation of being strong and reliable… Those days are over. I’ve been racing for 4 years as part of an off-road club here in Taiwan. We have races here 4 times a year. There’s a handfull of Land Rovers out of the 70+ vehicles entered in most races… I’ve yet to see a landrover compete (or even survive) well in a race yet. I drive a Jeep YJ I hate this too but at least they hold together and don’t mind swimming.
Now for the VW. It’s nice but pathetic. I feel sorry for the guys that bought the Porche for the fact that it’s the same thing as the VW other than the 0-60 (lol), interior goodies, and the “feng pi” factor. I think it’s a shame how these companies are starting to water down their products these days.
The best all around package is the Landcruiser by far. It has the lockers, leather, suspesion and respect from the people that fix cars.
NOt too many mods because of lack of money. I’ve got a detroit locker in the back a trutrac semi-locker in the front, a spring-over lift (about 5") and 33" tires, I also added a teraflex crawling kit to the transfer case. That’s about it.
We have a team of 4 jeeps which includs one of the only Rubicons in Taiwan. He’s the president of Gigabyte with money to burn. He’s got a 4" suspension lift, tera crawl kit, SUPERCHARGER, 35" tires, and a shwack of other goodies. You can see it at Safari Jeep Club in Taipei most of the time. Too bad it’s an automatic. He breaks front axles a lot for some reason.
[quote=“Ben”]IMO, there is no real need for the primarily on-road SUV that seems to be so popular nowadays.
If you want the cargo space or to carry 6 passengers, then you’re better off getting a mini-van. You’ll get better gas mileage and better cargo space, and your passengers will be more comfortable
If you want to occasionally go up to the mountains to ski, or the weather gets nasty sometimes where you live, you’re better off with an AWD wagon. You’ll get better gas mileage, same cargo space, and better handling.
If you need to go off-road frequently, then you wouldn’t be looking at a BMW, Porsche, Lexus, Infiniti, etc.[/quote]Agreed for off-road you wouldn’t buy a luxury SUV. But who wants to drive a Mini-Van? Are you crazy. That is some frumpy housewife car. The wagon has about the same inmage in the USA, unlike Europe where they are more popular and do not carry the same stigma. Did you know in Taiwan some people think that a wagon is shaped too much a like funeral herse and then stay away from them. They think it is bad luck. Compared to minivans and wagons, SUVs are more macho, but have the same space as a wagon (usually more) and can also carry up to 7 people like minivan, but without the Minivan housewife appearance. At least that is why I like luxury SUVs, I assume there are others that think like me. Also not bad for driving over the occassional curb or onto the beach, etc. Not for serious off-road adventure, but it has some offroad functions. Hey Ben, you go out and buy the Minivan! For you off road fans, I don’t think a Suzuki Jimny is nice or comfortable enough for me and my family for everyday driving. I wouldn’t mind one as a toy though.
BEN you mentioned something about a Porsche Sedan: There is one and it was only annouced a few days ago. It’s called teh Panamera. I prefer the Maseratti Quattoporte over the Porsche (see the photo below the Porsche). For around US$90K to US$100K the Quattroporte’s USA price is about the same as a new BMW X5 3.0 in Taiwan. Ben, BTW, if you fancy yourself a car buff you got to keep up with these things, but then maybe you only look at the Japanese Ricer websites. Just joking, that Porsche was only annouced a few days ago…
I actually would like to take it off-road from time to time. I’m not as hardcore off-road like some of the other posters here, but we do have a 12 year old FJ80 Land Cruiser in my family, and it has been offroad a fair amount. It’s comfortable enough for daily driving too.
Wow! Hahaha, well, you got me there. I knew nothing of the Porsche Sedan. When’s it going into production? I’d like to see one in person. I do read the Japanese websites, although, I’m not really into the boy racer (ricer) modifications like loud exhausts, stickers, big wings, etc. I read a fair share of European and American websites as well. Not sure how I missed this Porsche, hahaha.
[quote=“Hobart”]The wagon has about the same image in the USA, unlike Europe where they are more popular and do not carry the same stigma.[/quote]US consumers and importers have been slow to pick up on the concept of the touring wagon, despite the success in the Europe and Japan. I know that Subaru of America got a petition from thousands of enthusiasts demanding they import the STi wagon, but no plans yet to import it. IIRC, the suberb Audi S6 didn’t sell well there either. Why someone would buy an SUV over a high-performance AWD touring wagon is beyond me. Way more performance, far superior handling, comfort, fuel efficiency and very similar cargo space. Maybe all the plastic cladding and extra wheel gap is what sucks them in, but I think it’s a size thing. Overcompensation.
Wow. That picture of the porche was a shocker. It’s too bad about that thing, too. It’s funny, remember when these makers were making only GOOD cars? Now I’m not saying that grocery-getter isn’t a good car but it seems that these 'exotic" car companies aren’t affraid to throw their name onto any ball of plastic with a Navigation system. Look at Jaguar (Ford Taurus). All these specialty companies are being bought up buy GM ford and GM and taught how to cut corners. What’s with the Boxter? I think that car is the symbol of the beginning of the end. Now all these companies realize that they can make money off of an new market, and we buy it up like a pair of Melvin Clein jeans. hehehe.
I think I can answer this one. Most Americans that are into Large SUV’s also look for towing capacity. My mom bought a Dodge Durango recently and one of the main selling points for her is that it can tow our boat. We’ve also got motorcycles, a trailer, waverunners, etc…
I’m not against touring wagons and in fact would consider the forrester for my next purchase (turbo model only) but in the states it wouldn’t even be on my radar simply because it couldn’t tow anything.
Fun to have a sub 14 second quarter mile station wagon though…Yeeha!
I haven’t actually checked the specs, but I doubt the most popular SUVs mentioned in this thread, such as the X5, Cayenne, Touareg, RX330, FX35, ML, etc., can tow anything meaningful.
[quote=“MJB”]
I think I can answer this one. Most Americans that are into Large SUV’s also look for towing capacity.[/quote]True, but it doesn’t explain the market for the LSUV. Not to mention the fact that very few of those with real towing capacity are actually using it. General consensus seems to be that they get used solely as grocery getters. For what the vast majority are using SUVs for, a wagon would be a better choice.
[quote=“hsiadogah”][quote=“MJB”]
I think I can answer this one. Most Americans that are into Large SUV’s also look for towing capacity.[/quote]True, but it doesn’t explain the market for the LSUV. Not to mention the fact that very few of those with real towing capacity are actually using it. General consensus seems to be that they get used solely as grocery getters. For what the vast majority are using SUVs for, a wagon would be a better choice.[/quote]I still think Station Wagons look like grocery getters and SUVs do not, so if you have a big family and are a housewife maybe you don’t want to look like a housewife. Or if you are the husband and have to drive the wifes car sometimes you do not want to be seen driving a minivan or stationwagon. A Sports Utility vehicle is more sporty and works well in the snow and tows things, can drive over curbs, usually has more room than a station wagon and the driver can look down upon the station wagon drivers from their lofty perch.
Finally, who really cares why people buy SUVs! Why this big debate over SUVs? There are many threads in the Vroom Vroom Forum that are either dedicated to slamming SUVs or become that. Forget about it.
[quote=“Hobart”]Station Wagons look like grocery getters and SUVs do not, so if you have a big family and are a housewife maybe you don’t want to look like a housewife… Or if you are the husband and have to drive the wifes car sometimes you do not want to be seen driving a minivan or stationwagon. … and the driver can look down upon the station wagon drivers from their lofty perch. [/quote]Thanks Hobart.
<-- going out to buy a half-track to one-up the SUV owners. Escalation’s a bitch eh?
Hey, I was mostly joking. I am considering the Audi All Road, Volvo XC70 and other wagons. I just lost my patience with all of the forumosans slamming SUV’s that I had to take a stab at Wagons.
[quote]I’m not against touring wagons and in fact would consider the forrester for my next purchase (turbo model only) but in the states it wouldn’t even be on my radar simply because it couldn’t tow anything.
[/quote]
My old man tows his boat with his turbo Forester – off-road sometimes, too! No complaints from him. The boat’s clinker-built, too, so you KNOW it’s a heavy mother.
Hobart’s post was funny, too – differences in perception. When I see a minivan, I expect the driver to be an overweight bald guy with plumber’s butt driving it, but I still do a double-take when I see an SUV with a man driving and wonder why he’s driving his wife’s car.
[quote=“sandman”]I still do a double-take when I see an SUV with a man driving and wonder why he’s driving his wife’s car.[/quote]Now, there are two kinds of guys I know that can be seen driving SUVs. The first is the guy who bought it for his own purposes, it’s a Range Rover / Land Cruiser / Rodeo kind of device, and gets used off-road and/or for towing. The second group is the one you describe, that bought a CRV / X-Trail / Murano / X5 for his wife because she’s a lousy driver and/or doesn’t feel safe enough in a sedan, and he’s driving the thing for some reason of logistics, like his own car is in the shop etc.
Sandman: The Forester, being based on the Impreza platform, doesn’t have much towing capacity. It’ll work for a while if you’re careful, and it’s got plenty of torque, but the rear suspension will not tolerate heavy towing for long.
Hobart: Check out the video I linked to before you buy an AWD Volvo
Ah well, it 'aint me doing the towing and it 'aint my car. My old man’s been towing his boat for more than 40 years now, though, and as I said, he’s got no complaints. He has an ancient Landrover, too, but still prefers towing with the wagon. Go figure.
And yeah, when I said I’m surprised to see men driving SUVs, I was talking about the Nissans, Hondas, BMWs, etc. Those Volvos are another one – the archetypical mommy-car.
Come on guys, even a CRV is less sissy than a dang station wagon or Minivan! It is La Stationwagon and La Minivan, but Le SUV. SUV no matter how you look at it is a males car/truck. Sure there are more macho SUVs than others, but all SUVs are more macho than almost all station wagons and minivans.
At least that is the way most Americans over 30 look at it. (Umm, I may be mistaken as I haven’t lived in the USA for the past 9 years.) There may be exceptions but as a rule all SUVs are macho and all wagons and minivans are feminine. The only reason women drive SUVs are because the husband bought it for her so that he can drive it and not be embarassed.
Hsiadogah: They made that XC70 look like marketing design crap and no substance. Umm…err…I was more insterested in the Audi All Road than the XC70 anyway.
Just joking, that Porsche was only annouced a few days ago…
