Wage gap between foreigners and locals -- how to reconcile

This society actually pays less to foreigners than it does to locals for the provision of equivalent services. The numbers paid in salary are just part of the equation.

First, Taiwan has to foot the bill for educating the local worker. For the white-collar worker, that means almost 20 years of education, which adds up to a substantial cost for society. It’s an investment made in order to yield the 30 to 40 years of productivity that can be extracted from the average male worker (and substantially less for females). The foreign worker brings the benefits of an education which hasn’t cost Taiwan a penny.

Then there are post-retirement costs. The average life-expectancy after retirement these days must be at least 20 years. The local white-collar retiree will either receive a substantial monthly pension for life (which in the case of government employees and many others is highly generous) or a large lump-sum payment equivalent to many years of full salary. Foreign employees seldom qualify for such benefits.

There are also many other perks, allowances, payments and so on that local employees receive but foreigners do not. For example, colleagues in the central government with qualifications and duties on a par with mine have a very good chance of being sent to the U.S. or U.K. to study for a master’s or Ph.D. or on other such courses at the government’s expense. They not only receive their full salary while they are away, but they also receive an extra (and generous) living allowance (though I’ve never quite worked out why they should need this when their salary is already far higher than the income of most Western students) and have all of their tuition fees paid for them. There are many, many other fringe benefits that push up the overall value and amount of their compensation, including the notorious 18% preferential interest rate on their savings in the bank. Foreigners are not entitled to any of these things, by virtue of our being foreign.

And of course there are the Chinese New Year bonuses. I’ve never received one and I don’t know of many other foreigners who have. Locals receive at least a couple of months’ pay as bonus, and many would consider themselves very hard done by to receive just that much. Often they get many times more.

Even without factoring in the grey and hidden sources of income that many many locals enjoy but we do not, or the gradually increasing welfare benefits from which we are excluded, the overall value of the rewards they receive is likely to be much higher than ours.

So if we have a local and a foreigner working side by side, don’t be fooled into thinking that the foreigner is so fortunate because his salary is 100k compared to 60k for his Taiwanese colleague. In reality, the whole of what the local guy receives will be worth much more than is handed out to the foreigner.

And one more thing. I, for one, took a huge cut in income by coming to work in Taiwan. As I’m not here for the money, I’m willing to accept that. And there are many other foreigners here in a similar situation. Taiwan is getting our services – our contribution to their society – at much below the global market price. So I’d better not hear any mutterings about my nominal salary being a few cents higher than that paid to locals.

Wage gap? Yes, but it’s not as you might think.

I would think it would be exceedingly difficult to teach the majority of Taiwanese to think outside the box, as with most Asians. The education system here teaches by rote, memorization and repitiion. Here, I think of students writing characters for hours on end, or memorizing complex mulitplication or division tables. They are not taught process, just answers. Culturally, if you look at Chinese art or poetry or music, you find that the highest achievement is copying the original masters works. In addition the Confucian tradition emphasizes piety and subservience to social and family superiors, thus preventng thinking that might differ from what parents, teachers, or bosses have already laid down as acceptable. I have found from personal experience that while many Taiwanese and Chinese are aware of their pre-disposition towards this trait that it is difficult for them to change, even willingly.

Expat-like positions are harder to come by yes. OK, an anverage english teacher makes NT$80k a month. I have met guys making nuch more, but they have lots of experience and qualifications (TEFL etc.).

I would say that the average foreign white-collar worker (non-expat) here makes roughly the same an an average english teacher.

I must admit that I am here for my family and for the experience, I’m currently gaining. A possible plum job is a few years down the line.

The native english speakers who go and teach are mostly lamers …they can’t find a “real” job any where so they have to go this route…but the wage depends on supply on demand.

I have met pretty nice people teaching english here. Some mature, in their thirties and above, who are settled here and in it for the long term. Hardly lamers - and possibly able to get an office job if they wanted to - but they don’t. I think it’s hard to generalize so much as you do. :?

If you want to discuss with that kind of teachers, may I suggest hell :wink:

“Native English-speaking teachers are mostly lamers”?

That has more than just a whiff of troll to it. Does anyone else (apart from me and Holger) want to get suckered into responding to it?

Lamer??

[quote]lamer n.

[originally among Amiga fans] 1. Synonym for luser, not used much by hackers but common among warez d00dz, crackers, and phreakers. A person who downloads much, but who never uploads. tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/lamer.html [/quote]

Or perhaps they are all just unable to walk well?

I feel like a big fish here, I am ready to bite at the “lamer” bait. Unfortunately your line is without a big enough hook and us fish are going to eat the bait and ram that rod of yours where the sun doesn’t shine. :smiling_imp:

Of course I earn more money than the locals, I had to swim a long way to get here and do my work in what feels like a fresh water lake when I am a salt water fish. Sometimes my Taiwanese co-workers look like Salmon swimming up stream to spawn and then die when they get there. They work very hard and I certainly wouldn’t begrudge them some more cash every month. But if you think that I will take a pay cut to narrow the wage gap, you’re out of your cotton picking mind. :imp:

We get paid a good rate, but so do teachers in Japan. SO WHAT!!! :unamused: Market Demand sets the rate and I’ll take it thank you very much. I don’t need to say " I am not a lamer", why should I even defend myself against such a ignorant statement, I enjoy my work, I am here for the long term, and at home I have a good job.
'Nuff said. :x

anyone who thinks people teaching here are “lamers?” should try it.

And surely the hourly rate is watered down when you consider the unpaid preperation , homework checking etc.

Don’t forget about where we have to work. Would anyone want to stay here if they couldn’t bank at least NT$700K to NT$900K a year? Consider the extra “hazard pay”. I’ll probably have to spend half of what I earned on therapy when I go home.

Segue is all the therapy I need! :slight_smile:

Why reconcile?

I don’t feel guilty about being paid more.

I thought about it more and it doesn’t make any sense. It’d be like saying:
Wage gap between males and femals, how to reconcile?
or
Wag gap between German teachers and English teachers, how to reconcile?

But, to add to the disscusion, because I know what you mean, I’d just say be a bit nicer. Don’t brag about how much you make, don’t be a slacker at work because you can get away with it (a little slackin’s always ok :wink: ), put up with as much office mess as you can without getting to upset, don’t be a jerk.

But I think these are all things people should do anywhere.

[quote=“Mr He”]Why reconcile?

I don’t feel guilty about being paid more.[/quote]
You don’t have to feel guilty to reconcile.

Interesting topic. We’ve got an escalating problem at our primary school which I think comes from a misunderstanding of culture from our principals (sp) part. She thinks foreigners should be on a Taiwanese home room teachers wage, and we think she should be on one too.

I didn’t read through the whole thread, so some of these have probably already been mentioned:

Foreigners in Taiwan are hired for specific roles that typically can’t be filled as well by their local counterparts. Companies should expect to pay a premium.

Foreigners typically have higher expenses than their local counterparts. Phone calls and trips back to their home country alone can add up to thousands per year.

Except for those who stay for a really long time and those with an expat package, most foreingers will have to sell all of their possessions when they leave, at great financial loss.

Foreigners do not get the same government perks as locals. For example…

We pay taxes, but will we get a pension when we retire?

Where I lived the city payed a small subsidy for residents to send their kids to private nursery schools–we of course were not eligible even though our kids were born in Taiwan.

For Taipei residents, neonatal hepatitis vaccinations are free, unless you’re a foreigner.

A traditional meal for most foreigners in Taiwan costs a small fortune.

We can’t live with our mom until we get married, and our parents don’t usually give us our first house.

LOL!!! That is the funniest understatement I think I have ever read ! Understatement of the Century ! Brilliant !

LOL!!! That is the funniest understatement I think I have ever read ! Understatement of the Century ! Brilliant ![/quote]

Absolutely! How could those Germans ever hope to catch up with Taiwanese engineering prowess? Gott im Himmel!

The school I work at has a director appointed from a national university. When he came in, he let it be known he was going to shake things up. The teachers were all hoping it would be useful shaking. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out that way.

He reorganzied the structure of the organization and instituted a new pay scale instead. The new pay scale only applies to foreign staff, not teachers. He decided that it was unreasonable for foreign staff to make more than local staff for “desk work.”

The real problem, and he pointed this out in a letter sent to all effected staffers, was that his salary as director was lower than what some long-serving foreign staff were taking home each month for “desk work.” The obvious answer, to him anyways, was to lower the salary of foreign staff.

Take it or leave it was the offer. Same job, half the pay. The reactions ranged from “**** you and your horse,” to “Okay, I was probably making too much anyways.” I was somewhere in between.

This company could have afforded to raise the director’s pay, but the board obviously thought it would be better to act differently.

My local colleagues expressed sympathy for the plight we foreigners found ourselves in, but you have to wonder if they were not a little pleased to see us taken down a few notches or two.

One benefit is that we will now have paid vacation time, which we were denied in the past, but it will not make up the difference in pay.

I’m not going to put the name of the school; I don’t think it matters where this kind of thing happens, but the point that it happens is important. Things are changing.

The school you are working in is changing - and they’ll lose their more talented foreign staff if they cut the pay. Taiwan as a whole? No, not really. They try to underpay, but what they end up with is dissatisfied foreign staff and a high staff turnover, neither is good for business.

Take your talents elsewhere.