Want to move to TW - air pollution stopping me

Taiwan Moving to Taiwan
1

Hi everyone!

I’ve been reading a lot on Taiwan the last year, speaking with natives there and so, and I want to come and live there. I’m Swedish and I’m a freelancing composer and illustrator.

This country sounds so nice to live in, the food, the people, everything I hear about it is just plus plus plus - really tempting to just go there and experience new life for once… BUT.

But. But, but but… The damn pollution. I’m too afraid to go, because I don’t want to breathe in toxic air - I have grown up with the fresh air of Sweden and I simply love to go outside and just breathe heavily and feel the air down my lungs when strolling through nature and towns. But I keep reading that levels are going insane on the air pollution charts that exists all around for pm2.5, pm10, and other particulants and pollutives.

Should this really be a worry? Some natives I know say “hmm it’s not as bad as people say, really… Of course it’s not Sweden but it’s not at all dangerous.” - but I doubt it really… Not after those damn readings.

Is the government doing anything about this? Many countries have done SUPERB jobs with reducing the air pollutants, it’s not a really hard task if you implement correct measures, but what the f*ck are they doing in TW for this? I’m scared shitless of pollution like this, as I will live and breathe in the entire country and not stay inside all my stay there.

EDIT: I want to live in Taichung/KHH because of the weather and price of living. Seems impossible due to this apocalyptic air. :frowning: Taipei seems cloudy, rainy and expensive for most of the part… but it is also the cleanest large city place appearantly (except for east coast cities, which I don’t want to live in).

EDIT 2: After many many of your awesome replies, I really am more and more excited to come to Taiwan and try it out, even if pollution scares me a bit. I think it’s OK to just spend 1-2 years there to see how it is, or even longer if I feel living there is nicer than here in Sweden. :slight_smile: Thanks for being an awesome community!

Avenir

2

If you’re bothered by air pollution you’re going to be bothered living in most cities, definitely most cities in Asia. I haven’t spent a lot of time in Taichung but, yeah, you’re going to curse cars and scooters with filthy exhausts going past, and notice smog, the same as any Asian city.

Taipei rents are expensive but you can live cheaply once your rent is paid, and public transportation is very cheap, efficient and extensive, so you save the cost of a car or scooter. The air in the mountains is cleanest, so many people I know live on the outskirts of Taipei, which gives the best of both worlds. How long are you planning to live here? A couple of years of poor quality air is unlikely to do lasting harm.

3

If your need for clean air is so great, you’ll struggle in all the largest cities here, and will end up miserable. You’d need to head down the east coast, the smaller towns of Hualien (or even better, Taidong) rarely experience Pm2.5 levels above 100. Taidong today is 34.

http://aqicn.org/city/taiwan/taitung/

4

If you are lucky enough to be able to live anywhere in the world that has an internet connection, then I see no reason why you should choose Taiwan. Forget the pollution- there are a lot more pleasant, relaxing and enjoyable places to live. You seem to have heard a lot of good things about Taiwan- but to get a more balanced view then just spend a couple of hours browsing this forum.

5

You visit and experience things yourself and take it from there. But if you have allergies forget it.

6

[quote=“Petrichor”]If you’re bothered by air pollution you’re going to be bothered living in most cities, definitely most cities in Asia. I haven’t spent a lot of time in Taichung but, yeah, you’re going to curse cars and scooters with filthy exhausts going past, and notice smog, the same as any Asian city.

Taipei rents are expensive but you can live cheaply once your rent is paid, and public transportation is very cheap, efficient and extensive, so you save the cost of a car or scooter. The air in the mountains is cleanest, so many people I know live on the outskirts of Taipei, which gives the best of both worlds. How long are you planning to live here? A couple of years of poor quality air is unlikely to do lasting harm.[/quote]

Mm, good reply. I think I am leaning more towards Taipei in that matter then, just outskirts of it, close as I can to the MRT. I was planning on staying indefinitely, but will probably be 1-2 years or something!

This is an interesting reply! So yes… First of all, I am able to work anywhere in the world that has a decent internet connection as pretty much all my clients and job opportunities are on the web or internationally. Second of all, I hear Taiwan is a good place for this, like… Everything is cheaper than here in Sweden, the culture is something different and more exciting (yeah, not so fun around these hills… Oh and it’s dark half of the year, and the people are quite depressed so…), it seems quite tropical and interesting place to live for a while and experience some -life- in life, you know? The people seem quite nice, or just normal people. Some helpful, joyful and happy, others xenophobic depressing assholes - but that’s the entire world for ya.

If you have some specific bad things to say, that would make me want to go “whaat, fuck that - i’ll never go there” - then by all means, enlighten me! I have a pretty good idea of the place, of what tourists say and so!

Oh any ideas are welcomed btw, I’m really just looking for some awesome adventures to live somewhere abroad and do my composing and creative work, with a proper apartment and somewhat of a mix between high tech and calming natural preserves to explore and indulge in.

:slight_smile:

7

As above, your best bet is to either avoid city centres, or avoid cities altogether. I live in Danshui at the end of the MRT line, which isn’t too bad, but it’s still in the “bowl” that Taipei sits in (and in which smog collects), and there’s a big stinking main road not far away.

The goverment is doing nothing at all about pollution, as you correctly surmise. They’re still of the opinion that pollution=development.

OTOH this is nothing unusual. There are very few places on earth that aren’t polluted. Just because some places look clean doesn’t mean they actually are. If you want low pollution, you basically have to go to sparsely-populated places; frankly, I suggest the main reason Sweden isn’t too badly messed-up is because of the low population density rather than any specific efforts to control pollution.

8

[quote=“finley”]As above, your best bet is to either avoid city centres, or avoid cities altogether. I live in Danshui at the end of the MRT line, which isn’t too bad, but it’s still in the “bowl” that Taipei sits in (and in which smog collects), and there’s a big stinking main road not far away.

The goverment is doing nothing at all about pollution, as you correctly surmise. They’re still of the opinion that pollution=development.

OTOH this is nothing unusual. There are very few places on earth that aren’t polluted. Just because some places look clean doesn’t mean they actually are. If you want low pollution, you basically have to go to sparsely-populated places; frankly, I suggest the main reason Sweden isn’t too badly messed-up is because of the low population density rather than any specific efforts to control pollution.[/quote]

I mean, I live in Gothenburg, so I can deal with some large chunks of traffic and stuff - but I’ve recently moved to the outskirts instead, closer to nature and mountains and just fresher and quieter. I like cities, just not living smack in the middle of them - outskirts are perfect for me.

Sure, probably all cities on the earth are polluted in some way, but many do have taken down the levels of pollutants quite dramatically, to API’s under 50 in many major cities (while I’m now watching Taipei and Taichung at staggering around 150-160, red as blood).

It’s sad that the gov aren’t putting more effort into cleaning up the mess we leave behind by fuelling our vessels with products from crude oil and by doing so, destroying the environment and our own health… Just by doing reforms to the sources of pollution, creating smarter filters that capture particulants and just acknowledging that it is a real problem for people and putting engineers on the task, that would start cleaning up the air!

9

whether or not Taiwan stops polluting the air (unlikely), you’d still have filthy air in Taiwan, blown over from China by the prevailing north westerly winds. The east coast is cleaner, especially in summer with easterly winds.

10

It’s not only the cities that are polluted. For instance in winter whole countries can be blanketed in haze. There are other pollution problems in specific areas too. Living out of the crowded towns and cities is a good bet BUT the cities here can be inverted… For example Taipei city is quieter and nicer in central spots than some suburbs. It is very different than Europe.
Sweden and Taiwan could not be more different in some ways (I have lived in both), so if you want the anti Sweden, come to Taiwan!

11

We have someone called TheLostSwede here on the flob. Talk to him as if his chosen ID could reveal things you need to know before making this choice.
If you need only wifi to work, why not considering Malaysia, Thailand ? Lesser air pollution on the east side of Asia.
I would recco Taiwan if you envision learning Chinese. Otherwise I would not choose Taiwan.

12

One look at this real time map of Taiwan’s air quality should help the OP decide.
aqicn.org/map/taiwan/

13

I live in Ningbo in China. It’s slightly cleaner than most of east China. Today, according to gingerman’s map, it’s much cleaner than Taipei, but at certain times of the year (very cold so more coal burned, rice stalk burning, very dry weather), it’s very high although nowhere near as bad as northern China.

In terms of quality of life, it’s gross over 300 it’s only seriously ‘unbearable’ (quotes because of course it’s bearable …) over 400, IMO. Taipei is totally dealable, Taichung is similar to somewhere like Bangkok. Smelly but not unbearable.

That doesn’t mean it isn’t shortening my life.

14

Don’t live in the very south and keep an air filter on at home at all times. Then at least you’ll only be breathing relatively crappy air less than half the time (clean air during sleep and all other times you’re at home). And it’s only really crappy in the winter, even then not too often. Nothing compared to China.

Oh, and stay away from idling scooters at intersections.

15

If you plan on working online, consider how you’ll stay in Taiwan. Without a Taiwanese employer who can offer an ARC - usually for teaching English - it gets tricky. I think there are other countries where it’s easier to stay long term, such as Thailand. Also, Taiwan is probably less tropical than you’re expecting. A few weeks ago temperatures were down to 6 degrees C here in Taipei. With no central heating and a humid atmosphere, that feels cold!

But why not come for a short while and see what you think? If you plan on long term relocation you need to get some experience of living in a place before making a decision. I love living here but everyone’s different.

16

If all you need is an internet connection, why Taiwan? Because of the cheap cost of living? If that’s the case, there are far cleaner / nicer / cheaper countries to consider (like Thailand, some countries in S. America, etc).

The pollution in Taiwan is pretty bad, even in smaller cities. You might get some relief in the coastal areas, but there will still be a good deal of pollution that would probably be especially noticeable to you as you’re coming from such a clean place. The pollution there invades everything…water, food, air, everything.

Definitely go to Taiwan for a visit first if you are considering a move. It is a fun, energetic and interesting place, but if your primary concern is the pollution levels (it was for me too while I lived there), I would definitely go elsewhere. It’s not worth risking your health for.

17

One place you don’t want to go is China: horrible pollution and restricted Internet.

Taiwan may be polluted, but it’s less so than it was 20 years ago, especially in the north. Taichung is a pit of pollution. Better to live in Taipei. The east coast has the cleanest air of all.

Taiwan probably has the best Internet access in all of Asia.

18

But it sure does take the country in the right direction, and pollution by continental winds are occasional, not continuous like domestic pollution. Yeah, east coast is nicer, but way too isolated for me.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Living out of the crowded towns and cities is a good bet BUT the cities here can be inverted… For example Taipei city is quieter and nicer in central spots than some suburbs. It is very different than Europe.
Sweden and Taiwan could not be more different in some ways (I have lived in both), so if you want the anti Sweden, come to Taiwan![/quote]

This is really strange! You mean the outskirts can be messier and noisier than the central? How is it inverted?

[quote=“ceevee369”]We have someone called TheLostSwede here on the flob. Talk to him as if his chosen ID could reveal things you need to know before making this choice.
If you need only wifi to work, why not considering Malaysia, Thailand ? Lesser air pollution on the east side of Asia.
I would recco Taiwan if you envision learning Chinese. Otherwise I would not choose Taiwan.[/quote]

I have considered Malaysia actually, as that place seems really exotic and actually still somewhat high tech cities. I’ll write further down a list on what I am thinking for wanting to go to TW of all places, feedback on it would be awesome!

[quote=“Petrichor”]If you plan on working online, consider how you’ll stay in Taiwan. Without a Taiwanese employer who can offer an ARC - usually for teaching English - it gets tricky. I think there are other countries where it’s easier to stay long term, such as Thailand. Also, Taiwan is probably less tropical than you’re expecting. A few weeks ago temperatures were down to 6 degrees C here in Taipei. With no central heating and a humid atmosphere, that feels cold!

But why not come for a short while and see what you think? If you plan on long term relocation you need to get some experience of living in a place before making a decision. I love living here but everyone’s different.[/quote]

You have good points here. Regarding working there, I am sure I can get authorization through my country’s embassy - not fussed about that. How is it easier to stay longer and work in places like Thai/Malay?
Well, it’s a lot more tropical than here! More exotic than pine trees, darkness, cold and ice :smiley: . And yes, I will probably just make my first trip there and check it out. As a Swedish citizen I can stay up to 90 days without any visa, so that’s good!

[b]
Ok, so!

[/b]
Thank you very much, you awesome community, for sharing insight on this - very helpful. So why do I want to go to TW to work when I can work anyplace on earth that has a decent internet connection?

[ul][]
Adventure
 - not Indiana Jones dangerous and exotic - just a place different from Sweden.[/]
[]
Money
 - It is cheaper than Sweden for rents, food and basic living and partying/traveling/commuting. Not cheap paradise but still significantly cheaper than Scandinavia.[/]
[]
Weather
 - I am addicted to good weather, clear blue skies and the sun on my face. Grown so very tired of the predestined overcast weather here.[/]
[]
Low crime rate
 - I don’t want to be living in a country with bullshit criminals and worrying all the time. Taiwan seems a very friendly place![/]
[]
Pollution
 - This is the big con for me, but what ya gonna do…[/]
[]
Food
 - Yeah, I love food, but a bit picky if I’m to eat it everyday. I love thai food, some chinese food (tired of fried stuff though, not good for ya), and just being able to eat varied.[/]
[]
Transportation
 - TW feels like a place where it’s not hard to commute around, see different places and get the most out of city environment and nature preserves.[/]
[/ul]

My question is: Would this be feasible in Malaysia? I have considered that before, but can’t remember why I leaned towards Taiwan more. Maybe because of crime rate/people not speaking english/low developed country or whatever. It seems a really really exotic and tropical place, with a decently high tech city development,but not sure about all the other things that I mentioned in my list…

Thanks again for all the help and answers!

19

voices.yahoo.com/top-reasons-wes … 95180.html

Damn! Malaysia seems a really nice place too :O!

20

But checking out crime rates and stuff in Malaysia seems up the roof too. Damn it! Why are people so nasty to eachother :confused:
Some tourist in Malaysia after being stabbed and robbed in the street:
“Having traveled extensively for almost 30 years as a backpacker including to Africa, Yemen and Southeast Asia, Dave said he is not a squeamish person but will not recommend anyone to travel to Malaysia.
In reiterating, he said: “I’m not a squeamish person but I genuinely believe this to be the most dangerous place I have been due to the number of incidents and the frequency of them…. it’s epidemic.””

Always something eh. Damn people.