"Warmth" in Taiwan?

I hate to rant and generalise, but I overheard a conversation today from two foreigner friends complaining about the lack of “warmth” in Taiwan. Among things mentioned were lack of respect or consideration on the road (driving), lack of affection in families (little cuddles or show of affections unless its to a young child), lack of people asking “how have you been recently?” and general indifference to strangers. They also said that they were tired of the superficial friendliness shown to them because they are white.
I try to rationalise it all by thinking of northern Europeans who also don’t show as much affection to each other as say the Spaniards and Italians. And maybe its a big city thing or a capitalist thing, I know in London you can see a thousands of people walking around all day and not one smile. Also all the niceties (sp?) exchanged with each other back home are often done automatically, just cos they don’t hug each other or ask “how have you been?” as much here as in England does not mean they are unfriendly. My girlfirends mum is really friendly to me, but I have to admit that her brothers and sisters have hardly uttered a word to me in four years. Maybe its cos they’re shy. But then again they don’t talk to each other much neither.
What do you guys think? Where is the warmth in Taiwan?

Some Taiwanese are very nice, some are very rude… like everywhere

It depends on who you are, how you interact with people, and what kind of karma you have amassed in your past lifes… :wink:

I don’t need a lot of people who superficially spread their warmth and drop you like a hot potato once they get bored.

I rather cherish the relationship with those few people who don’t hug you all the time but are there when you need them the most (like after your team lost in a “PK Da Sai” for example…)

Ni hau ma? was the first phrase I ever learned when I came here. Well, I actually knew it already on account of Monty Python, but still. I find the people here warm and accommodating and friendly, on the whole. Some arseholes of course, but on the whole, they’re OK. Like anywhere. Except England, of course. Or Wales. No hope for those poor feckers.

I find that my friends who are not from Taipei are all warm. Some of my friends who grew up in Taipei are too. (my lovely students are so sweet and they are kids here) But I think my southern friends are warmer, usually, than my Taipei friends.

你好 is more of just a “hello” though right? You don’t hear people pull out a “你最近怎麼樣” very often… it’s just not a part of the culture. Likewise people don’t really ask “what are you up to now” do they? I’m still a newb though so correct me if I’m wrong.

I suppose I have two questions. The first one is do you think people are as warm to each other as they are to foreigners? I ask this because I “look like a Taidong local” and most Min Nan people seem to open up to me more when they find out I’m from England. One example, I always buy sugar cane juice from this one guy, and he always seemed to have an angry look on his face when I bought stuff from him. One day he said something to me in Taiwanese and I told him I couldn’t speak Taiwanese, then he asked me where I was from. After his initial disbelief and inspection of my ARC he’s since then always smiled at me when I go there and we always have a chit chat. This seems to happen a lot.
I wonder if any other ABC’s or Asian descent people have experienced anything similar.

Also is it fair to say that its unusual for adults here to hug and kiss each other if they are going away for a while or if they haven’t seen each other for a while? I’m just curious because my g/f’s sister came back home and the family hadn’t seen for around a year, but when she entered the house hardly anyone said anything. I was thinking maybe they had seen her recently and I didn’t know about it, I don’t really know. I asked my g/f about this and she told me that if she were going away for a long while she wouldn’t hug or kiss her mum goodbye.
I’m just wondering if it isn’t usually done here, or if it really just depends on the family. I don’t know other families. Maybe my g/f’s family is unique?

yeah, “ni hao ma?”, and “ni zuei Jin Ze me Yang?” is different. One is like saying hello, the other one is like showing interest in how the other person has been since you last saw them.

I would say that like SAF says, as soon as you go outside of the city that people do get friendlier. Not sure if its because of the big city mentality or “we don’t see foreigners very often”. Ignorance levels certainly rise much more sharply as soon as you leave Taipei (compared to some other big cities).

Maybe the two foreigners you overheard simply feel isolated which is very easy in a new culture. The thing that really gets to me about Taiwan is the apathy. People just aren’t passionate (except maybe about the new LV handbag). The most passionate people I’ve met in Taiwan are other foreigners. Whether its a sport, cooking or business… but not thinking about the money… its what defines their life.

Correct me if you think I’m wrong people… or maybe I just don’t know enough locals.

Happy people generally find ways to generate feelings in others that they wish to experience themselves. If you invest in good people, you get great stuff in return. If you sit around feeling miserable about your circumstances, you’ll find lots of things to be unhappy about. At my advanced age, I’ve found that this is true no matter where you are.

Agree. Live with it, or let someone else do the driving. I drive defensively most of the time, offensively when necessary. Requires a paradigm shift. Most of the Taiwanese people I drive with are just as upset (often more upset) than I am with the way many people drive.

Warmth is abundant in most Taiwanese families, but isn’t always recognized as warmth to the uneducated. When a Taiwanese Mom nags, she’s basically saying “I love you son. Be better.” Most of the people I associate with here tell their kids they love them, hug them, and hold them until they are teenagers. Things are changing.

Bugs me sometimes to. The same fellow who treats me like a king when I’m in his home would probably ignore me if I were wheelchair bound and looking for a spot on an elevator. Still, I’ve found that instead of worrying about why others aren’t asking how I’m are doing, or the lack of kindness to strangers, I’m much happier if I’m a bit kinder to strangers, and ask others how they are doing.

Generally, the folks who act like this have good intentions. They have no real interest in you; they are just trying to get through a social situation smoothly. We generally do the same thing at home.

Still, some are out to use you. It really doesn’t hurt you. My advice is to maintain a little distance, and develop a way to separate the wheat from the chaff. If I get to know a Taiwanese person well enough to know that we’ll probably become friends, I generally say something like “I’m just a person, like you. Let’s drop the “you’re from the great white race” airs and treat each other as equals.” It’s actually a great test of who you’ll be able to be close with, and who is only interested in your exotic features or your native language.

On a side note, really, what is there to complain about? “People are too nice to me! I hate it!” Would your friends prefer to be treated like shit?

I experience generally the same level of warmth I experience back home. It often takes a different form, but it is just as warm.

And I’m sure Taiwan is the only place in the world where people care if you’ve eaten or not.

[quote=“Tyc00n”]
Maybe the two foreigners you overheard simply feel isolated which is very easy in a new culture. The thing that really gets to me about Taiwan is the apathy. People just aren’t passionate (except maybe about the new LV handbag). The most passionate people I’ve met in Taiwan are other foreigners. Whether its a sport, cooking or business… but not thinking about the money… its what defines their life.

Correct me if you think I’m wrong people… or maybe I just don’t know enough locals.[/quote]

I would say you pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Who cares? It’s too friggin’ hot here anyway. The last thing we need is more warmth.

The indigenous people in Taiwan tend to be a lot “warmer” from my experiences.

They will more often get involved in a deeper conversation with a stanger than the average “Taiwanese” I think. What I mean is, they will ask for example, what I think about Taiwan. Then will ask about certain aspects of my culture/country and how it is different from things here.

My Chinese sucks (and i’ve been here for years :s ) and I never get the un-genuine “Wow! Your Chinese is so good” from them.

I remember a few years back I was somewhere around Jingching farm, in the snow mountain area, on a motorcycle trip in the winter. We stopped in the middle of nowhere in cabbage country. We were frozen. We went into a little shop and the family invited us in for tea. There was very little finger pointing in astonishment that there were white people in their store. They just struck up a conversation with us and we hung out.

I feel that western culture and indigenous Taiwanese culture are socially more similar than with “Taiwanese” and western people.

They seem to be more tactile with their children as well.

They seem more passionate about life in general IMHO.

Well said Tomas :bravo:

What about compared to other Asian countries? How would Taiwanese stack up? What about outside of Taipei. Was in Penghu not too long ago and the people were over the top genuinely friendly and warm. It is a big city thing, but then Taiwanese are really not so affectionate to each other in their own families, but I think that is common throughout Asia.

Do you think those foreigners you overheard had traveled anywhere else in Asia?

LOL That’s so true!!

[quote=“JoshTW”]What about compared to other Asian countries? How would Taiwanese stack up? What about outside of Taipei. Was in Penghu not too long ago and the people were over the top genuinely friendly and warm. It is a big city thing, but then Taiwanese are really not so affectionate to each other in their own families, but I think that is common throughout Asia.

Do you think those foreigners you overheard had traveled anywhere else in Asia?[/quote]

I’m not sure if they’ve been to other Asian countries. But yeah, sometimes if you sit around focusing on the negative things its amazing how many things you can come up with.

From my experience in the Philippines, I think people would at least hug each other if they knew they weren’t gonna see them for a long time. I remember hugging the family at the airport for around 2 hours thinking that next time I should get to the airport closer to my departure time to minimise all the tears and hugging!!
Maybe Japan is similar to Taiwan but I don’t think its strictly an asian thing, just some countries are into the hugging and kissing thing and some just aren’t.
I do think there might be something said about the level of poverty. I feel that poorer countries are “warmer”, with southern Europe being an exception, perhaps.

Anyway it depends what one means by warmth. I think warmth shows itself in phoning each other up a lot, asking if they’ve eaten, other shows of concern for peoples welfare. Its shown in different ways I suppose.

edited for triple post

edited for triple post

Damned I thought this is a gay thread.
Must be a German language thingy…