Was CKS the "Founder of Taiwan"?

Found this on cnn.com:

I wonder what they mean by “founder of Taiwan”? The closest I can think of is that they’re trying to say he’s the “founder of the de facto state known as Taiwan”. I’m not saying that he is — I would have just described him as a “former strongman/dictator/generalissimo”. I don’t think that cnn’s characterization is either pro-green or pro-blue. I just think it’s weird and inaccurate, and I’ve never heard anyone describe him as such, in English or Chinese. Is there a chinese phrase about him that could be literally translated this way?

I guess, while he was alive, you could have gotten in trouble for describing him as the founder of taiwan, if you were in taiwan. “Future retaker of the mainland” would have been more up his alley.

What’s your take? Did cnn just flub their research? Is this an accurate way to represent CKS to a readership who probably don’t know his name?

Seems like CNN took the “obvious” approach. Taiwan is de-facto independent that that de-facto independence was achieved under CKS.

[redacted]

I guess they could have put “Liberator of Taiwan from Japanese Occupation.” But I’m sure that would have offended the sensibility of CSB and TI supporters.

Not to mention the editors at CNN who only have a limited amount of space for those nasty bullet points on the top of the page.

[quote=“lurkky”]Found this on CNN.com:

I wonder what they mean by “founder of Taiwan”? The closest I can think of is that they’re trying to say he’s the “founder of the de facto state known as Taiwan”. I’m not saying that he is — I would have just described him as a “former strongman/dictator/generalissimo”. I don’t think that CNN’s characterization is either pro-green or pro-blue. I just think it’s weird and inaccurate, and I’ve never heard anyone describe him as such, in English or Chinese. Is there a Chinese phrase about him that could be literally translated this way?

I guess, while he was alive, you could have gotten in trouble for describing him as the founder of Taiwan, if you were in taiwan. “Future retaker of the mainland” would have been more up his alley.

What’s your take? Did CNN just flub their research? Is this an accurate way to represent CKS to a readership who probably don’t know his name?[/quote]

Personally, I prefer Vinegar Joe’s label for CKS—“peanut.” :laughing:

[quote=“wikipedia”]
General Joseph Warren Stilwell (March 19, 1883 – October 12, 1946) was a United States Army four-star general best-known for his service in China. He was nicknamed “Uncle Joe” and “Vinegar Joe” for his purported concern for the average soldier and forthright manner.

Stilwell was constantly embroiled in disagreements with Chiang - whom Stilwell labeled “Peanut” in his official reports - about engaging Chinese forces against the Japanese. Stilwell would press Chiang to fight, while Chiang, with some legitimacy, preferred to preserve a defensive posture for political and military reasons. Chiang was concerned that his troops lacked training and supplies, and he also wanted to keep Chinese Nationalist forces ready to fight the Communists, under Mao Zedong after the end of the war with the Japanese. Infuriated by what he regarded as Chiang’s corruption, incompetence and timidity, Stilwell constantly filed reports to Washington complaining of Chiang’s inaction. Eventually, Stilwell’s belief that Chiang and his generals were incompetent and corrupt reached such proportions that Stilwell sought to cut off Lend-Lease aid to China. In his diary, which he faithfully kept, Stilwell began to note the corruption and the amount of money ($380,584,000 in 1944 dollars) being wasted upon the procrastinating Chiang and his government. [/quote]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stilwell

Is there nothing CKS-related that CSB won’t leave untouched?

Glad I visited last year and took photos.

In your wildest dreams … and they say he ‘served’ Taiwan … but they forgot to mention how much he stole …

Are you kidding? I guess you’re not. How did he pull this off? Did he throw all the treasures in the National Palace Museum at the Japanese?

It seems to me that nothing drove the Japanese out of Taiwan so well as the war of attrition they were fighting on various fronts.

Or maybe you believe that 228 was a crackdown on Japanese loyalists disguised as street vendors?

CNN subtext and how it relates to 228. Only a TI nutter would make the connection.

CKS was in Taiwan and established the ROC on it. “Founder” seems like an appropriate term to use. Although if you must be picky “Taiwan” is inappropriate to use, since it is not the official nonmenclature of ROC. Those are the facts.

Perhaps if you sent a nasty-gram to CNN, they’ll bend to TI revisionism.

TI nutter? I’m really not. Really. I wouldn’t be moving to Shenzhen in 2 weeks if I was.

AC, sometimes I wish I could see the world exactly the way you do, where all the facts are known and any new issue will be forced to fit the facts. Kinda like Fred w/ bush, or RDO with christianity. Oh well. Some day. I still got a few years left, I guess.

I shouldn’t belabor the point on this holiday. Enjoy yourself … have a happy Mrs. Chiang-day ~

Founder of Taiwan…

The Dutch (1624)?
Koxinga (1662)?
Shih Lang (1683)?
Liu Ming-chuan (1885)?
The Japanese (1895)?
Chiang Kai-shek (1945)?
Chen Shui-bian (2000)?

I’m going to take Koxinga for $500, Alex.

Hey, maybe we should rename it the Koxinga Memorial Hall! Now there’s a generalissimo you can’t help but love …

Nice angle wrt Stillwell, Chewy.
Castles made of sand, and all that.
If 6 was 9.

Um, didn’t Dr Sun establish the ROC in China, in about 1911? Wasn’t it based on the capital at Nanjing, which was so brutally occupied and pillaged by the Japanese?

Um, wasn’t Taiwan never a part of the ROC? Partly (and inconveniently so) as it was a Japanese colony at the time, 1911? and they only fled the ROC and proclaimed taiwan as part of ROC territory after they had lost control of China following a long-running civil war with the Communists led by Mao, which forced them out, into exile. Exile: banishment to a foreign land.

History is so easily made. manufactured. produced. twisted into shape. even AC can do it!

[quote=“urodacus”]

Um, didn’t Dr Sun establish the ROC in China, in about 1911?[/quote]

No. He was reading a newspaper over breakfast in a hotel in Denver, Colorado, when the republic was established.

Let’s stay on topic. Not Sun, Chiang.

Can we call him the founder of 228? How’s that?

The founder of white terror?

or the layer of the groundwork for what would eventually become the unclear political shituation we now find ourselves inhabiting? (some of us, anyways)

If you must find fault with why the ROC is in its current situation, the sole blame is really rest on the Nixion administration and Kissenger.

Just like the snowflakes that never fall on Taiwan during X-mas, unlike this forum, it is all an illusion to say since the US foriegn policy screwed up Asia so much, let’s just blame some dead people and revise history a bit so not to make all look like idiots.

Taiwan’s highest mountain receives winter’s first snowfall
12/24/2007 (CNA)

Taipei, Dec. 24 (CNA) Yushan in central Taiwan received its first snowfall of this winter Monday when a moist cold front swept the island, the Central Weather Bureau (CWB) reported.

taiwanheadlines.gov.tw/ct.as … &CtNode=10

[quote=“urodacus”]Um, wasn’t Taiwan never a part of the ROC? Partly (and inconveniently so) as it was a Japanese colony at the time, 1911? and they only fled the ROC and proclaimed taiwan as part of ROC territory after they had lost control of China following a long-running civil war with the Communists led by Mao, which forced them out, into exile. Exile: banishment to a foreign land.

History is so easily made. manufactured. produced. twisted into shape. even AC can do it![/quote]
Umm…the ROC actually proclaimed Taiwan as part of the ROC before it lost control of the mainland. Taiwan Retrocession Day was in 1945. PRC was brought into existence in 1949.

[quote=“Chewycorns”][quote=“urodacus”]

Um, didn’t Dr Sun establish the ROC in China, in about 1911?[/quote]

No. He was reading a newspaper over breakfast in a hotel in Denver, Colorado, when the republic was established.[/quote]
There’s been conflicting accounts of his whereabouts on Oct 10, 1911, but the most accepted version is that he was on a train on route to Denver. He arrived in Denver on Oct 11 and heard of the news on Oct 12. Having said that, Sun was indeed the one that proclaimed the ROC into existence as he managed to return to China by Dec 1911 and proclaimed the ROC on Jan 1, 1912.