Was the US action against Iraq ILLEGAL?

On a different note but also one regarding “illegality” or “non-legality,” I have a question…

In June 2003, France, Germany and the UK committed themselves BY TREATY to taking pre-emptive action against terrorist threats such as those the US detailed as necessitating action in Afghanistan and Iraq…

So if we have these three nations signing such a treaty… and if the main beef that Rascal and others have is that the US went outside the UN to act and that the UN charter does not allow for pre-emptive actions… how then is this treaty in conformance with the UN charter and international law?

Bit hypocritical of posters like Rascal to ignore this salient little fact, no?

And the mission was accomplished it just wasn’t finished?

It would be hilarious if only it wasn’t so damned tragic.

HG

Yes, what really is the tragedy? That the US removed a nasty really evil dictator and enabled free and fair elections? or that terrorists are “terrorizing” the Iraqi people and the only ones protecting them are American troops while posters such as yourself attack… wait for it… the Americans… THAT is hilarious, not tragic. Why? Because your opinion will never ever matter…

As to Darfur… According to the UN rules, China’s actions are “legal” but are they “just” or “ethical?” You decide…

[quote]The UN blinks on Darfur
Despite the UN action to save it, Darfur still needs a peace to keep before it can use peacekeepers.
from the August 3, 2007 edition

Rather than plan for an invasion of Darfur to end a genocide, the UN Security Council decided Tuesday to send in 20,000 peacekeepers – not peacemakers. And the Blue Helmets will operate only without usurping Sudanese authority. Why the compromises? Two reasons: China and Iraq.

First, China. With its veto power within the Council, Beijing has delayed tough UN action on Darfur for years. It treasures Sudan’s oil for its booming economy more than saving hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in Darfur. But with global activists launching a save-Darfur campaign against China’s hosting of the 2008 Summer Olympics, it recently sent diplomats to its erstwhile allies in Sudan for a little arm-twisting.

That, and some limited sanctions on Khartoum by the UN, led to limited concessions for a much-constrained UN force to enter Darfur. The result is a complicated peacekeeping mission – the largest ever for the global body – that will take months, perhaps a year, to see if it can bring long-lasting peace to Darfur’s survivors – just long enough for Beijing to finish up the Games next summer.

China, in essence, won a decent interval so it can use the Olympics to mark its ascendency as a world power.

Second reason, Iraq: Before the US invasion in 2003, many officials at the United Nations were moving toward a doctrine of intervening in any country where a civil war or a humanitarian crisis was getting out of control. That was the UN’s main lesson from the 1994 Rwanda genocide. But then the post-9/11 “preemptive intervention” in Iraq to destroy then-alleged weapons of mass destruction put a bad name on such well-meaning meddling.

The UN now remains wary of acting in such an assertive, sovereignty-busting way – even in the face of another genocide. And the result in Sudan is global intervention by dribs and drabs – and with many doubts.

Sudan did allow in a force of 7,000 soldiers from the African Union in 2004. That proved ineffectual, as expected, and left more than 2 million refugees still vulnerable to attacks. But even with the new UN African Union Mission in Darfur (Unamid), peacekeepers won’t be able to disarm militias or arrest suspected war criminals. They can only protect civilians. And they are allowed to operate only “without prejudice to the responsibility of the government of Sudan,” according to Tuesday’s UN resolution. That’s a loophole for Sudan to block anything.

In addition, the UN officers must be African, no sanctions are threatened if Sudan doesn’t comply, and the UN secretary-general is not obligated to report violations.

Perhaps this UN move is the baby-step needed to end Darfur’s tragedy and provide enough security to feed the refugees. If it fails, and China agrees, the UN can move to tougher sanctions. Still needed is international pressure on Darfur’s rebel groups to unite and negotiate a peace deal with Khartoum – one that equitably distributes power and wealth to Sudan’s regions. It is that inequality that lies at the heart of the dispute.

Since 2003, the conflict has claimed more than 200,000 lives and has shown the weakness of the UN as a global body. To end both, Darfur first needs a peace. Only then can it use peacekeepers.[/quote]
csmonitor.com/2007/0803/p08s01-comv.html

[quote]been declared “legal” by the UN.
[/quote]

Glad to hear it.

When this forum fills with jihadi terrorists, I promise you I will attack them mercilessly. No, on second thoughts, should one real jihadi turn up, I’ll go them. However, in the interim, populated as it is with people who can vote to overturn a clearly fucked foreign policy, I will continue to point out the failings.

Do keep those sweet tidbits coming though Fred, I’m sure it’s aiding the groundswell of support for your preferred policies. Oh wait . . .

HG

[quote=“fred smith”]On a different note but also one regarding “illegality” or “non-legality,” I have a question…

In June 2003, France, Germany and the UK committed themselves BY TREATY to taking pre-emptive action against terrorist threats such as those the US detailed as necessitating action in Afghanistan and Iraq…

So if we have these three nations signing such a treaty… and if the main beef that Rascal and others have is that the US went outside the UN to act and that the UN charter does not allow for pre-emptive actions… how then is this treaty in conformance with the UN charter and international law?

Bit hypocritical of posters like Rascal to ignore this salient little fact, no?[/quote]
I will bite. I am aware of that fact and I will explain the difference, then you will see that there is nothing hypocritical about it: they signed a treaty and it’s anyone guess if and under what circumstances pre-emptive action on that treaty will be taken.
Compare that to the US that has taken action against a dictator in the ME with a crippled army, contained in his own country, military expenditure way down & sanctions in place, and only a moron will think that this is (or may become) somehow a threat to the US and warrants pre-emptive action.

I trust this will answer your question though I don’t expect you to understand the difference and agree.

What are the failings? How are they worse than what was there before? Were Iraqis not dying or fleeing the country in the millions under Saddam?

I sympathize. You are Australian. Your nation’s effort is appreciated. When and if enough Australians vote to support the policies that you would like to see implemented then it is possible that Australian troops will leave Iraq. That said, the US troops will stay. Iraq will be better for it. People like you will continue to vent and bloviate and “entertain” the other “mates” at the bar, but… Which of your suggestions, rants will be implemented as policy? Be sure and let us know how that works out. First, you might want to vote Howard out of office. AND … if he is out of office… will your nation pull its troops out of Iraq?

Also, what justifies your nation’s “actions” in the Solomon Islands? Papua New Guinea? East Timor or rather Timor Loeste? Fiji?

How are those actions “okay” but not similar efforts in Iraq? or Afghanistan?

Since many of you are such proponents of consistency at all cost, explain away… Was there a meeting at the UN that I missed where your actions in the Solomon Islands was approved by the Security Council? or for France in Cote d’Ivoire? or for France and the US in Haiti? So perhaps we need to look a bit more closely at “legality” and determine who and when decides that “legality” is “illegal” and “not illegal” is “illegal” or when “not illegal” is “legal” or forget it… you get the point.

[quote=“fred smith”]I sympathize. You are Australian. Your nation’s effort is appreciated. When and if enough Australians vote to support the policies that you would like to see implemented then it is possible that Australian troops will leave Iraq. That said, the US troops will stay. Iraq will be better for it.

Where did I say I wanted the US or Australian troops to leave Iraq? You’re still fighting imaginary demons, Fred.

I have always maintained that invading Iraq was wrong, but now that your lot have and completely fucked the place, you need to stay the course and fix it. My concerns are that to date the US military has not proven itself capable to do this, although the surge, which I advocated sometime back, in addition to painfully slow shifts in tactics have started to bear fruit, however meagre.

Democracy is such a bitch, eh? Howard will be gone next election. I for one will be most happy about that.

[quote]Also, what justifies your nation’s “actions” in the Solomon Islands? Papua New Guinea? East Timor or rather Timor Loeste? Fiji?

How are those actions “okay” but not similar efforts in Iraq? or Afghanistan? [/quote]

While not a fan of Howard’s policies, I must commend Australia’s military for electing to embark only on campaigns they know they can acheive.

Legal or illegal, it was plainly wrong and to date you have >3,000 dead service people and who knows how many Iraqis as a result and there are more terrorist actions per day now than when you began.

HG

Anyone’s guess? Really? So why sign a treaty at all if you don’t even know what it will entail?

Not your decision is it. Our president determined that he was a threat and your intelligence agency agreed. Your government believed that he had wmds, but believed more inspections was the answer. Find me a quote where your leaders said that Saddam was NOT a threat. What they said was that they believed that sanctions and inspections could contain him. BUT sanctions were collapsing and don’t your very own European companies know the why! AND it was not your nation’s forces that paid up to $3 billion per month to enforce the no-fly zones nor was it your nation’s troops that had to go on expensive build ups every couple of years when Saddam would decide that even the inspectors would not be allowed to remain. Right?

Nope. It does not. You want things both ways. You want to argue that the UN is the final arbiter of these matters but only when it suits you. Then, you bitch when the US acts the same way. YOUR treaty involves PRE-EMPTION. This is ILLEGAL according to the UN charter. YOU tell me how this is compatible with your UN Charter commitments or it is ILLEGAL. Explain away. Cat got your tongue? haha

Your leaders, your intelligence, your this, your that. Oh fred, when do you understand that it was the US who made the decision based on their intelligence (or lack thereof) and that the US should take the responsibility for their actions, instead of pointing the finger at others? Loosers.

Whether or not preemptive attacks are moral or legal is not relevant to the issue of the legality of the U.S. invasion of Iraq since the U.S invasion was not a preemptive attack. I haven’t read the treaty signed by France and Germany but if they are talking about preemptive attacks then you can not equate this with the U.S. actions in Iraq. In fact, if the U.S, invasion had truly been a preemptive attack then the outcry against the invasion may not have been as strong (then again maybe not)

First of all it is losers, not loosers. haha

Second, we are the ones taking responsibility in Iraq. Who else is there?

Third, the UN is interested in getting involved in Iraq now, why? Who tried to stop them from getting involved four years ago? They ran when the security situation became too bad.

Fourth, you are the one that is always saying that either US government officials lied about the dangers posed by Iraq’s wmds (all reports say otherwise).

Fifth, you are the one who questions US intelligence, but if YOUR nation’s intelligence assessments were exactly the same, why is the US so “stupid” or so “guilty” of “misleading its public and those of other nations?”

Sixth, you have a treaty in which you are bound along with France and the UK to respond pre-emptively to terrorist threats or those involving wmds. Please explain to me how this “conforms” to the UN Charter? and thus how would it in fact be “legal?” I am still waiting. Or is it only wrong with the US acts pre-emptively? I think that we are starting to get a very good idea of your “consistency” which is US = bad, Germany = nuanced, legal, correct, just, fair, etc. smirk. The treaty was signed in June 2003 in Luxembourg. Now, given that the average treaty takes at least a year to prepare and even with rushing must have started gaining steam well before the US invaded Iraq, what do you have to say about the fact that your nation’s leadership along with the French were negotiating a treaty to “pre-emptively” act against terrorist and wmd threats while posturing in the UN security council about how the US should not be doing so? This should be good. I am in the mood for an entertaining diversion. Please do share… haha!

I note with amusement your effort to derail this discussion again. Please tell me first, how Bush was lying about the threat posed by wmds. Please explain to me despite the history of the Iraqi Liberation Act how regime change was brought up ONLY AFTER the invasion. Please explain to me how your treaty complies with international law. I will wait…

Yeah, yeah. You transfer the power to the so-called government, you ask other nations to send troops and now you are begging the UN to come in - very responsible of you. To others it looks like just another cut and run ala Afghanistan.

Wrong - the US & UK asked them to come. And that they didn’t get involved earlier probably has to do with the fact that the US would not have wanted the UN to run the show, so again the US is to blame, not anyone else.

I am not going to ask you for those reports for fearing you are going to cite anyone else than US agencies/officials.

Uh, because it was the US that decided to go to war, not the others, so what they thought was stupid, too, but doesn’t matter. What a stupid question (without quotation marks).

  1. We asked for troops. Fighting is tough. No one sent them. We have asked in Afghanistan, you have kindly sent 2,000 all of which must be kept away from the fighting. We have 20,000 troops in Afghanistan. Who is cutting and running? THIS is a conflict that you FULLY support and that is all you are able to send? Bah! Who expected anything from you in Iraq? Bush? me? My contempt knows no bounds.

Really? Did the UN not set up an office in Baghdad immediately after the invasion was over and after the bomging in Sept, did it not hightail it out of there. Who asked it to return now? The US? Where is that quote?

Butler? Duelfer? Take your pick.

Explain to me how the defender of the Persian Gulf is stupid to view a threat as real when your intelligence agencies also viewed it as real. It turned out that Saddam did not have wmds, but we and your intelligence agencies believed that he did. Blix believed that he did. So we are stupid for acting while you are not stupid despite believing the same thing because your policy is never to actually act? Well, in that case, why did your nation sign a treaty committing you along with France and the UK to act preemptively with regard to threats from terrorists and wmds? Why not go through the UN or the EU? Hmmm?

Also the conclusions of the Duelfer and Butler reports are that while Saddam did not have wmds, he was a threat and had every intention of developing them once sanctions collapsed. And remember who was helping sanctions collapse? Oh dear… Forgot about all those French, German and Russian companies aiding Saddam when they should not have been? All those corrupt Oil for Food UN officials who were subverting the effort? Also, remember that the Iraqi Liberation Act which was enacted under Clinton called the primary goal regime change, not proving or disproving wmds. That was considered secondary to removing Saddam once and for all. What do you have to say about that? eh?

And again, explain to me how your nation signing a pre-emptive treaty with France and the UK is compliant with international law as envisioned in the UN charter? and why not go under the EU? Why a separate treaty with these two nations alone? Hmmm? sounding kind of “unilateral” for a German aren’t we? hahaha

I see, so no more COWs, eh? Poor US, all left alone. But if you want troops all you have to do is install a draft, and you do get more American soldiers over there.
Since you seem to have all the arguments on your side I am sure the American people will not object, instead be eager to join. You could also volunteer (no excuses regarding age or health, I am sure they can find a suitable job).

Yes, the UN was there and left. But what could they do, with the oh-so responsible US in charge that has no control over the place?

BTW: What’s ‘bomging’, teacher?

I linked the article in the other thread, you saw it.

CIA, DIA - read their reports? Or Blix’s feedback on the US “best intelligence”? Since you value other’s so much I am sure you will nothing but agree with his findings, which were actually proven facts that should have more weight than his (or anyone’s else) believes.

Blix believed until Feb 20 that Iraq had wmds. Shall we believe him? I agree. We should.

I note, however, that you studiously avoid answer how Germany’s treaty with France and the UK to preemptively attack terrorist and wmd threats would be legal under the UN Charter. I note that this is in direct opposition to the EU policy which is to go through the UN while leaving the circumstances when and how it would not very nebulous. Given that these policy statement already exists in the EU and that this is in rough accordance with the UN Charter, why the separate treaty committing Germany to action with the UK and France? Why was the EU and UN legalese not sufficient? Does Germany believe that these two organizations are not sufficient to ensure its protection? hahahahahahahahahaha

Also, come on Rascal, you know full well that the US is doing all of the work in EVERY theater. We get assistance with peacekeepers and nation builders that is certainly true and I do not wish to denigrate such assistance BUT in a hot war, excepting the British who is there or ever would be there?

The UN left because it was afraid. That is NOT what the UN is supposed to be about. The UN is supposed to be where it is needed not where security can be guaranteed. Right? Or is this a new “condition” that is part of some “treaty” that I have somehow missed…

I trust evidence/proof, not believes. Maybe because I am not a religious person.

I ignore it because it doesn’t have anything to do with the topic of this thread, and that’s all I will say to that.

The question is not who but rather why. Which explains why no one wants to be there.

Does that mean the UN will get full control of all the military in Iraq if it came back? I believe (!) Bush won’t agree, so not much point to bring the UN in.

Let me clarify that last statement: not much point from the UN point-of-view, for the US it would be perfect (if the US remains in charge) because then they have someone else to point the finger at if things still don’t get better.

This is most interesting…

[quote]The U.S.-Led 2003 Invasion of Iraq: The United States-led intervention in Iraq in
March, 2003 was perhaps the most important occasion on which the United States differed
vehemently from several of its traditional continental European allies over a vital question
of international law. The judgment of United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan that
the intervention was unlawful because the United States had not obtained specific
authorization, in the form of a new Security Council Resolution, before beginning
hostilities, is shared by many independent legal experts and scholars.38 Nonetheless, this
episode hardly justifies European complaints that the United States has become heedless of
international law.39
As is well known, Article 2(4) of the United Nations Charter requires Member
States to “refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the
38 For Annan’s pre-war position, see Patrick E. Tyler and Felicity Barringer, “Annan Says U.S. Will Violate Charter if it Acts Without Approval,” The New York Times at A8 (March 11, 2003). After the war, in an interview on September 16, 2004 with the British Broadcasting Corporation, Annan repeated his view that the intervention was illegal. See “Excerpts: Annan Interview,” available at
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle__east/3661640.htm (“I have indicated it is not in conformity with the UN Charter, from our point of view and from the Charter point of view it was illegal.”).
39 See Jacques de Lisle, “Illegal? Yes. Lawless? Not So Fast: The United States, International Law, and theWar in Iraq,” Foreign Policy Research Institute (March 28, 2003), available at
fpri.org/enotes/20030328.ame … riraq.html

(“True, the United States and its handful of active partners in the coalition did not obtain the Security Council’s specific authorization for their use of force against Iraq, nor has the Bush administration articulated a credible claim that this is a case that falls within one of the few, narrow exceptions permitting the international use of military force without Security Council authorization. But, contrary to what much of the chorus of criticism asserts or assumes, unlawfulness is not the same as lawlessness. Eschewing or rejecting prescribed legal processes is not the same
thing as rejecting all legal principle. Not adhering to the international legal requirements set forth in the U.N. Charter does not lead ineluctably to the world of Thucydides’ Melian Dialogue in which the strong do whatthey wish and the weak do what they must.”).Hosted by The Berkeley Electronic Press 16 territorial integrity or political independence of any state.”40

Under the Charter, armed force may be used by one State or group of States against another only in two circumstances. First, Article 51 recognizes Member States’ “inherent right of individual or
collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member,” but the United States
and its coalition partners did not place their primary reliance on the argument that their
action against Iraq was lawful under that provision
.41

Second, Article 42 of Chapter VII of the Charter authorizes the Security Council to “take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security” in a troubled area. The United States’ original intervention against Iraq in January, 1991, following upon 40 On the background and meaning of the Charter clauses relating to international armed conflict, see, e.g., John F. Murphy, The United States and the Rule of Law in International Affairs 142-44 (2004). 41 To be more accurate: the United States made an Article 51 argument to the Security Council, but in somewhat sketchy and allusive terms; the United Kingdom and Australia did not make such an argument in that forum. See Helen Duffy, The ‘War on Terror’ and the Framework of International Law 197-98, 205-07 (2003).

Outside the United Nations, the United States did of course rely, sometimes quite heavily, on the
claim that preemptive action or even preventive war against “rogue states” and terrorists was compatible with international law. See generally The National Security Strategy of the United States of America, September 2002, available at whitehouse.gov/news/releases … 321-5.html (stating President’s
determination that further diplomatic efforts would “neither adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq” nor “lead to the enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq”). For a thoughtful evaluation of the United States’ position, see Alan M. Dershowitz, Preemption: A Knife That Cuts Both Ways 153-89 (2006). See also Ruth Wedgwood, “The Fall of Saddam Hussein: Security Council Mandates and Preemptive Self-Defense,” 97 Am. J. Int’l L. 576, 582-85 (2003); Carl Bildt, “Pre-emptive military action and the legitimacy of the use of force: A European Perspective” (CEPS/IISS European Security Forum, Jan. 13, 2003), available at eusec.org/slocombe.html.

The British position specifically rejected the idea that military action against Iraq was legally justified
on the grounds of preemptive self-defense. See “Extract from Debate in the British House of Lords,” (Apr. 21, 2004) (remarks of Lord Goldsmith), reprinted in Mary Ellen O’Connell, International Law and the Use of Force 259-61 (2005). Instead Britain relied on the argument that Iraq’s material breaches of Security Council Resolutions authorized the resumption of hostilities. See Letter from the Permanent Representative of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland to the President of the United Nations Security Council (Mar. 20, 2003), U.N. Doc. S/2003/350 (2003); see also Lord Goldsmith, “Legal Basis for
Use of Force Against Iraq,” (Mar. 17, 2003), available at guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0, … 55,00.html.
law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1744
17

Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait in 1990, had been authorized on precisely such a basis:
Resolution 678 of November 29, 1990, enacted “under Chapter VII of the Charter,”
expressly authorized “Member States co-operating with the Government of Kuwait . . . to
use all necessary means” to enforce earlier Security Council Resolutions relating to the
Kuwaiti crisis against Iraq in the event that Iraq failed to comply with them beforehand.
The 1991 U.S.-led offensive came to a halt with the adoption of Security Council
Resolutions 686 of March 2, 1991 and 687 of April 8, 1991, which imposed a variety of
obligations upon the defeated Iraqi Government. Both before and more especially after
the terrorist attacks on the United States of September 11, 2001, the United States sought
to persuade the United Nations that Iraq remained a danger to regional, and world, peace
and security. Focusing on Iraq’s failure to permit United Nations inspectors immediate
and unrestricted access to verify its undertaking to rid itself of weapons of mass destruction,
President Bush made it clear, in a speech to the General Assembly on September 12,
2002, that the United States wanted and expected the Security Council to reauthorize
armed intervention in Iraq, but that the United States was prepared to act unilaterally in the
absence of such a Resolution (“We will work with the U.N. Security Council for the
necessary resolutions. But the purposes of the United States should not be doubted.”).42

As a result of the intense diplomatic activity that ensued, the Security Council, acting under
Chapter VII, adopted Resolution 1441 of November 8, 2002, which in part decided that
“Iraq has been and remains in material breach of its obligations under relevant resolutions,
including resolution 687 (1991).” Resolution 1441, however, unlike Resolution 678, did
not in terms authorize the United States or other Member States to “use all necessary
42 See “President’s Remarks at the United Nations General Assembly,” (Sept. 12, 2002), available at
whitehouse.gov/news/releases … 912-1.html. Hosted by The Berkeley Electronic Press 18 means” to bring Iraq into compliance. Rather, Resolution 1441 reflected a two-stage approach that had been advocated by France: disarmament through resumed inspections
or, if that failed, reconsideration by the Security Council of its options, including recourse
to force.43

Four months after the adoption of Resolution 1441, the United States and its
coalition partners tabled a resolution that would have provided specific legal authorization
to resume hostilities in Iraq.44 France, supported by Russia and China, announced publicly
that it would veto the draft resolution, which in any case had no chance of passage and was
withdrawn.45

In these circumstances, the United States took the legal position that Resolution
1441’s finding that Iraq had been and remained in material breach of Security Council
Resolution 687, coupled with Iraq’s subsequent failure to cure those and other breaches
after the adoption of Resolution 1441, authorized the United States and its coalition to
resume the concededly lawful hostilities that had been suspended eleven years earlier by
Resolution 687.46 Several prominent legal scholars agreed with the United States’ view.47

Others, of course, did not.48 43 See Remarks of M. Dominique Galouzeau de Villepin, Minister for Foreign Affairs of France, United Nations Security Council Fifty-eighth year, 4707th meeting Friday, 14 February 2003, 10 a.m. New York, U.N. Doc. S/PV.4707. 44 See Provisional Resolution --, March 7, 2003, U.N. Doc. S/2003/215.

In any event, Secretary of State Colin Powell had stated previously that, in the event of an Iraqi breach of Resolution 1441, the Security Council could “decide whether or not action is required,” but the United States would “reserve our option of acting” unilaterally and would “not necessarily be bound by what the Security Council might decide at that point.” Quoted in Michael J. Glennon, “How War Left the Law Behind,” The New York Times at A33 (Nov. 21, 2002).
45 See Ayman El-Amir, “A world united against war,” Al-Ahram Weekly Online: 20-26 March 2003 (Issue No. 630), available at weekly.ahram.org.eg/print/2003/630/sc2.htm. President Bush remarked that “some permanent members of the Security Council have publicly announced they will veto any resolution that compels the disarmament of Iraq . . . . The United Nations Security Council has not lived up to its responsibilities, so we will rise to ours.” “President George W. Bush Addresses the Nation on Iraq” (March 17, 2003), reprinted in Craig R. Whitney (ed.), The WMD Mirage 166, 167-68 (2003). 46 See Letter from the Permanent Representative of the United States of America to the President of the United Nations Security Council (March 20, 2003), U.N. Doc. S/200/350; see also William H. Taft & Todd F. Buchwald, “Preemption, Iraq, and International Law,” 97 Am. J. Int’l L. 557 (2003).

Mr. Taft wrote as Legal Adviser to the U.S. State Department, and Mr. Buchwald as Assistant Legal Adviser. law.bepress.com/expresso/eps/1744[/quote]

law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent. … t=expresso

Then there is this…

[quote]My purpose here is not to defend the United States’ legal position, nor even to
argue that it was a reasonable (if perhaps erroneous) one. Rather, I want only to make the
point that even if the United States (and Britain and Australia) were clearly in error about
the legality of using force against Iraq, the continental European governments that were
critical of the coalition’s position themselves had “dirty hands.” For the NATO Alliance’s
armed intervention in 1999 in Kosovo, which was designed to prevent Serbia from carrying
out its program of “ethnic cleansing” of that province, was certainly on no better footing
under international law than the U.S. coalition’s intervention in Iraq in 2003.49
Having themselves violated the very same constraints of the U.N. Charter only four years earlier,
the European governments involved in NATO’s Kosovo intervention could hardly claim
that the United States was an international scofflaw for having done so.

50
47See, e.g., Yoram Dinstein, “Comments on War,” 27 Harv. J. L. & Pub. Pol’y 877, 889-91 (2004);
Christopher Greenwood, “International Law and the Pre-Emptive Use of Force: Afghanistan, Al-Qaida, and Iraq,” 4 San Diego Int’l L. J. 7, 34-36 (2003); Ruth Wedgwood, “The Fall of Saddam Hussein: Security Council Mandates and Preemptive Self-Defense,” 97 Am. J. Int’l L. 576, 578-82 (2003); Ruth Wedgwood, “Legal Authority Exists for a Strike on Iraq,” The Financial Times at 19 (Mar. 14, 2003). For a sophisticated defense of the United States’ intervention (albeit one not keyed to the textual analysis of the relevant Resolutions), see Michael D. Ramsey, “Reinventing the Security Council: The U.N. as a Lockean System,” 79 Notre Dame L. Rev. 1529 (2004).
48 For a recent critique of the U.S. legal position, see Byers, supra n.–, at 44-45; see also Simon Chesterman, “Just War or Just Peace After September 11: Axes of Evil and Wars Against Terror in Iraq and Beyond,” 37 N.Y.U. J. Int’l L. & Pol. 281, 288-97 (2005). For a survey of some objections, see Helen Duffy, The ‘War on Terror’ and the Framework of International Law, supra n.–, at 201-02. 49 Many of the pertinent legal objections are summarized in David Chandler, From Kosovo to Kabul and Beyond: Human Rights and Humanitarian Intervention 127-39, 158-66 (2006). See also Michael Glennon, Limits of Law, Prerogatives of Power: Interventionism After Kosovo, ch. 1 (2001); John C. Yoo, Using Force, 71 U. Chi. L. Rev. 729, 735 & n.22 (2004); Dinstein, supra note --, at 881; Jules Lobel, Benign Hegemony? Kosovo and Article 2(4) of the U.N. Charter, 1 Chi. J. Int’l L. 19 (2000); Bruno Simma, NATO, the UN and the Use of Force: Legal Aspects, 10 European J. Int’l L. 1 (1999).

Despite setting out the legal case against intervention altogether flawlessly, Richard Falk attempts, unconvincingly in my view, to defend the legality of NATO’s actions under international law. See Richard Falk, “Humanitarian Intervention After Kosovo,” in Aleksandar Jokie (ed.), Lessons of Kosovo: The Dangers of Humanitarian Intervention 31-52 (2003). Other efforts to find justification – even if retrospective – for the Kosovo intervention under international law include Louis Henkin, Kosovo and the Law of “Humanitarian Intervention,” 93 Am. J. Int’l L. 831 (1999).
50 Moreover, it seems fair to point out that even if the United States did violate the U.N. Charter’s restrictions on the use of force (Article 2(4) in particular) by attacking Iraq, that infraction was hardly unique in the Charter’s history. In a classic article written thirty-six years ago, the international law scholar Thomas M. Franck pronounced Article 2(4) dead: “today the high-minded resolve of Article 2(4) mocks us from its grave Hosted by The Berkeley Electronic[/quote]

law.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent. … t=expresso

Irrelevant. No decision as to whether to go to war or not is based on your “beliefs.” Hans Blix was sent to “investigate.” As of Feb. 20, 2003, he was of the belief that Iraq was concealing wmds by his own admission. He found that Iraq could not account for many of its missing materials. All intelligence agencies believed that Iraq was not in compliance and moreover that he had wmds. Your highly precious ethical concerns notwithstanding, the decision was made to act.

Of course, you do not want to talk about the British, French and German treaty which exactly mirrors the very actions that the French and German governments were complaining about in the UN Security Council, namely actions that did not conform with the UN Charter… Now, given that the EU already has a policy on this, why did your nation need a separate treaty committing it along with France and Britain to PRE-EMPTIVE action against terrorists and wmds? Hmmm?

Right… So tell me which nation has deployable forces available that they would or could send to Iraq if only the US had not been so “unilateral” and “unlawful” in its actions…

Perhaps, I would say cowardice and the lack of will are two more important factors. It is fine to send in “Peace Keepers” but what if there is no peace? IF there is no peace, you will not find the EU or the UN or Germany. And if things do get tough, those peacekeepers stand down. Remember Bosnia? haha

Better ask the Iraqis what they think of the UN. Apparently not much. Wonder why? Oh, that’s right the corrupt Oil for Food program. Silly me. How many Iraqis died again because Saddam was buying weapons and building palaces rather than food and medicine? And who was in charge? oh the UN? Gosh. Gee.

Oh boy have you gotten us figured out! haha

But what would the UN be interested in going back now? Obviously, we have established that the UN leadership is craven and cowardly and the US has asked them back before. Why the interest now? Maybe the surge is working? Maybe the political framework is increasingly in place? Apparently enough to tempt our well-heeled bureaucratic “friends?” haha