Watch it or lose

Here is a video you must watch or lose:

I didn’t know Howard Zinn died!

Woody Harrelson is great, isn’t he? But this video hardly contains any earth-shattering revelations. They’re basic points of law, politics and economy that most university students or businessmen will come across. Do the hoi polloi really not know and understand these simple ideas? What a depressing thought.

[quote=“finley”]I didn’t know Howard Zinn died!

Woody Harrelson is great, isn’t he? But this video hardly contains any earth-shattering revelations. They’re basic points of law, politics and economy that most university students or businessmen will come across. Do the hoi polloi really not know and understand these simple ideas? What a depressing thought.[/quote]

I think the conclusions are unavoidable. Yes, they know but what does that matter is the question raised.

Liberal nut blogger nonsense

The areas congruent with right-sided conspiracy ideas make the video interesting. But when Woody makes statements about drilling for oil in Alaska being a moral issue and that the population will double in 35 years the whole video loses some credibility. Also, the idea that a true democracy would leave the control of printing money in the hands of elected officials is just stupid, as is implying that living paycheck to paycheck is not a result of the choices made by the individuals who do so.

So now that the right and left are both singing in the same choir, what next?

Maybe the real conspiracy is the desire to make everyone believe in a conspiracy that will help support the power moves of a power grab enabled by the belief in a false conspiracy that isn’t the real conspiracy but the conspiracy of a real conspiracy is real after all

If you paint everything as nut blogger, crazy talk, nonsense; it just comes off as knee jerk reactionary nonsense. That is not impressive if you are devoid of gravitas.

[quote=“louisfriend”]Liberal nut blogger nonsense

The areas congruent with right-sided conspiracy ideas make the video interesting. But when Woody makes statements about drilling for oil in Alaska being a moral issue and that the population will double in 35 years the whole video loses some credibility. Also, the idea that a true democracy would leave the control of printing money in the hands of elected officials is just stupid, as is implying that living paycheck to paycheck is not a result of the choices made by the individuals who do so.

So now that the right and left are both singing in the same choir, what next?

Maybe the real conspiracy is the desire to make everyone believe in a conspiracy that will help support the power moves of a power grab enabled by the belief in a false conspiracy that isn’t the real conspiracy but the conspiracy of a real conspiracy is real after all[/quote]

It is a moral issue. There is only one planet. How it is treated is the greatest moral question of all times. Printing money has always been in the hands of private banks for the most part all over the world. I, too, don’t think it should be the purvey of elected officials but there in lies the conundrum. That issue is open to blatant exploitation and it has been – unless your memory of the past 15 to 25 years has been wiped clean. The right and left do sing in the same choir. That is a fundamental tenant of democracy. To think they don’t is treason by definition.

treason [ˈtriːzən]
n

  1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) violation or betrayal of the allegiance that a person owes his sovereign or his country, esp by attempting to overthrow the government; high treason

If one of those political parties chose not to sing in the same choir, e.g., started singing in the Chinese Choir, you’d have treason.

If you don’t understand that the money goes somewhere then forget it.

Agency bank for the Iraq was JP Morgan Chase Manhattan. They secured all the loans to military contractors from RBS through to the likes of Halliburton. They were paid in cash only for these transactions. The biggest financial beneficiary of the financial melt down was JP Morgan Chase Manhattan elevated to the largest bank in America by assets through mortgage holdings. Now just a few years after the crisis, it starts to record billions in profits as the housing sector turns. The great majority of its recent assets were purchased at bargain basement prices with money it made from the Iraq war. This is inescapable fact. The bank was formed by merger law in America introduced by James Baker when he was treasury secretary under Ray-gun. He was also a bank chairman. On that same bank was Kenneth Lay (Enron), Joanne Herring’s husband (the chief financier of the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan), President Johnson, Ladybird Johnson, President Ford. Jeb Bush got his first job there. He would later be Governor of Florida and James Baker would arrive to close the deal on ‘hanging chads’ to usher GW Bush into the presidency. First issue on their agenda the non-existent energy crisis that turned into the next to biggest fraud in America, ENRON. That bank is now JP Morgan Chase Manhattan.

Good news for your friends: J.P. Morgan Chase to Run Iraq’s Trade Bank, U.S. Says (Update3)http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aEKCAEHxVEBI

You can rest easy on the vested interest and relationship between government and private sector argument. You can convince yourself you are right but if you don’t think vested interests exist and have an impact on the way people live from the shoes they wear to the men who die at war then WOW.

[quote=“louisfriend”]Liberal nut blogger nonsense…
The areas congruent with right-sided conspiracy ideas make the video interesting.[/quote]
As the presenter says himself, the views in general of the right and left are pretty similar - never mind the conspiracy theorists. This is because they’re not ‘views’ at all - they’re just dry, dull-as-dishwater facts. They are not points of debate. You can read the legal code of any EU or US state and find a description of all the things that ‘synthetic persons’ (companies) are allowed to get away with that ‘natural persons’ (humans) would not. You can read an undergrad economics textbook and find out how and why money works in our particular economic setup; in particular, modern monetary theory describes (in theory) why governments have no choice but to tax and spend, and run a deficit.

Well, I thought it started getting a bit weird at the chip-implant bit. That’s end-of-days, 666 stuff. It could happen - the whole history of the world has been a struggle between the controllers and the controlled. But I don’t think it’s relevant to our immediate problems. I also agree it’s silly to make predictions about future population trajectories - there are too many unknown unknowns to predict an exponential. But as fox says, the management of natural capital is a moral issue. If you think it’s something else, explain.

To a point, it’s a personal choice. But mostly it isn’t, and people are immensely gullible. The car example in the video is a good example of something we simply shouldn’t be buying - because it’s a totally crap solution to a very simple problem - but people buy them anyway, because they’re told to.

Try this thought experiment: imagine yourself as an average young graduate, just out of university, who makes a decision not to become a wage slave. Think about exactly how you’d achieve that. Most people attempt it by becoming a wage slave “just for a while”, with the intention of retiring while they’re still young (55!) while living on a nest egg, perhaps in some low-cost foreign country. Think about how you’d achieve independence from the ratrace in the US or the EU, at a (genuinely) young age. You couldn’t do it. You’re not allowed to do it. About the best you can achieve is to become homeless, or eking out a living in a cabin in the woods. If you attempted to create a high-quality, low-impact lifestyle for yourself (perhaps with the cooperation of others), the men with clipboards would be on your back. Depending on where you live, you could easily find yourself in jail - for example, for building shelter without planning permission, keeping animals without permits, or for creating and using an alternative currency. The only real difference between the different political stripes is that some accept that this is good and ‘correct’, while others rail against it.

[quote=“louisfriend”]Liberal nut blogger nonsense…
The areas congruent with right-sided conspiracy ideas make the video interesting.[/quote]
As the presenter says himself, the views in general of the right and left are pretty similar - never mind the conspiracy theorists. This is because they’re not ‘views’ at all - they’re just dry, dull-as-dishwater facts. They are not points of debate. You can read the legal code of any EU or US state and find a description of all the things that ‘synthetic persons’ (companies) are allowed to get away with that ‘natural persons’ (humans) would not. You can read an undergrad economics textbook and find out how and why money works in our particular economic setup; in particular, modern monetary theory describes (in theory) why governments have no choice but to tax and spend, and run a deficit.

Well, I thought it started getting a bit weird at the chip-implant bit. That’s end-of-days, 666 stuff. It could happen - the whole history of the world has been a struggle between the controllers and the controlled. But I don’t think it’s relevant to our immediate problems. I also agree it’s silly to make predictions about future population trajectories - there are too many unknown unknowns to predict an exponential. But as fox says, the management of natural capital is a moral issue. Economists treat natural capital as income because theirs is an immature subject, full of errors and limitations. Few economists have any training in ethics. If you think it’s not an ethical issue, explain.

To a point, it’s a personal choice. But mostly it isn’t, and people are immensely gullible. The private automobile, as mentioned in the video, is a good example of something we simply shouldn’t be buying - because it’s a totally crap solution to a very simple problem - but people buy them anyway, because they’re told to.

Try this thought experiment: imagine yourself as an average young graduate, just out of university, who makes a decision not to become a wage slave. Think about exactly how you’d achieve that. Most people attempt it by becoming a wage slave “just for a while”, with the intention of retiring while they’re still young (55!) while living on a nest egg, perhaps in some low-cost foreign country. Think about how you’d achieve independence from the ratrace in the US or the EU, at a (genuinely) young age. You couldn’t do it. You’re not allowed to do it. About the best you can achieve is to become homeless, or eking out a living in a cabin in the wilderness. If you attempted to create a high-quality, low-impact lifestyle for yourself (perhaps with the cooperation of others), the men with clipboards would be on your back. Depending on where you live, you could easily find yourself in jail - for example, for building shelter without planning permission, keeping animals without permits, or for creating and using an alternative currency. The only real difference between the different political stripes is that some accept that this is good and ‘correct’, while others rail against it.

Ha! I was just trolling with the nut blogger comment. I couldn’t help it. After hearing so many liberals talk smack about conspiracy blogs then see a liberal “documentary” type production about the same ideas is a bit amusing. Was Alex Jones one of the contributing editors? I like the part with the quotes given by famous historical figures about mysterious powers and intangible forces, as if they’re quoting from the Dao De Jing. To say it’s full of dry facts is a bit of a stretch. It’s clearly slanted and subjective.

Nevertheless, I don’t disagree with all the ideas it tried to express. But I do disagree that getting oil out of Alaska is immoral. Alaska is a huge state, about the size of Europe, and very sparsely populated. Putting in a few oil sites is hardly going to bring destruction to Alaska, let alone the planet. I wouldn’t even say I agree with drilling for more oil there, but lets keep things rational and about the “facts.”

And to say people live paycheck to paycheck because they’re gullible and do what they’re told, well, I think people are still accountable for own decisions. If I’m going to be an alcoholic just because beer commercials have hot girls I’m pretty well not going too far in life anyways. If a sweet talking salesmen talks you into buying a new watch because he/she appealed to your emotional sensibilities, who has responsibility for making the purchase? Everyday people are just as much to blame for the financial crisis as the banks. Both sides were greedy and short-sighted. There wouldn’t have been so many junk derivatives to trade if people weren’t signing on to houses they couldn’t afford to buy. Yes, there were problems with agents misleading buyers on the affordability of homes, but for the most part is was just greed by everyone. I witnessed it first hand in California.

For those with talent, brains, and guts, there are still good things to be had. But that’s how it’s always worked. The problem nowadays is what to do with the majority of people that don’t have those qualities. It’s not as easy to get a low-skill job that provides a livable income as it once was, but that is the curse of post-industrialization. Increased capital and efficiency is going to plague low-skill workers over time regardless. It’s a bit off the topic, but even if the problem of greedy corporations and banks gets solved for the time being our economic model will eventually doom the planet as it now stands

I also question the idea that the right and left are mostly on the same side. Of course if you consider the desire to have a safe and healthy family everyone can agree on it. I guess we would have a lot in common with war lords in Africa too, in that case. But the biggest ideological difference is the government’s role in our quality of life. The right thinks things would be better if the government stayed out of the way for the most part, the left thinks the government needs to be the major force driving social and economic progress.

Since the film notes both business and government are fused, it makes efforts towards both right and left ideals seem that much more futile. So the conclusion leaves us with just one answer, the power of consumer choice. But if you’re living paycheck to paycheck in debt that choice has been mostly taken from you as well. Do most Americans buy a bunch of crap from walmart so they’ll have money left to buy things they don’t need, or is it because they really can’t afford the alternative? When I was a starving student I didn’t have the option to consider corporate responsibility when purchasing necessities. Buying organic consumables and sustainable products usually cost quite a bit more. Maybe that is where the real trap lies.

Of course people are manipulated into buying stuff they don’t need or to think one thing is better and more desirable than another including war and ways of life. Of course debt forces people to be compliant. Debt cycles are the bread and butter of finance. If I owe you a 1000 dollars, I’m in trouble. If I owe you a million dollars you’re in trouble. Working that simple system is the essence of control. Just ask the Chinese and the Japanese who have been sucked into American debt and sponsored the making of JP Morgan Chase Manhattan. They were beaten at a game they didn’t understand.

When it comes to manipulation, I’m always reminded of growing up on a farm. We were sheep and beef farmers. The thing about lamb as a product is that it is not as good as two-tooth (one year old fully grown sheep). When we had our own killers, they were always of that age, because we had the luxury of choice. However, a farms carrying capacity will not support growing sheep to that age because if you are a fat-lamb business your stocking more than doubles annually depending on your lambing percentages. You must quit the lambs; therefore, you must promote lamb as desirable. I knew that as a 10 year old.

Here’s an interesting spin on the 1% by North Korea. It shares some similarity with your video. NK lecturing the West on propaganda :astonished:

And the plot thickens

With even more problems on the horizon