Eventually you get to an age (or a length of time in East Asia) when that threshold gets really, really low.
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Fucking Pleco and its piece of shit PRC Mandarin dictionary fucked me up again. I just found out off a cashier I’ve been saying 載具 wrongly for an embarrassing number of years. For anyone who cares, don’t pronounce as in Pleco, correct local pronunciation is zai3ju4.
Before Pleco, one had to look up a word 3 times (sound part, meaning part, etc) in paper dictionary. Nightmare
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http://twdict.lookup.tw/載具.html#.YsGr9xYRWaM
There are a number of common characters that are pronounced with different tones in Taiwan vs China etc. For instance, 攻擊 is pronounced gong1ji2 in Taiwan, gong1ji1 elsewhere. You can verify Taiwanese pronunciation in Pleco by installing for free the Taiwan MOE Dict into Pleco. Or the MOE cross strait dict which lists differences in pronunciation and usage, also available for free on Pleco. I’ve attached above a link to a wiki entry listing those characters with different tones in Taiwan vs mainland China.
In your example of 載具, however, this isn’t a Taiwan vs China difference, but a difference between two distinct words. Third tone is correct to mean “record” “write down” and forth tone is correct to mean “transport” “carry”. If you mean a receipt, then only third tone forth tone載具 is correct, including in China (although 收據 or 發票 are much more commonly used there). Conversely, the word 載具 4th tone 4 tone is correct in both Taiwan and elsewhere if you mean a “vehicle” “conveyance” - see above for a link to a Taiwan dict entry with this word with the pronunciation given as 4 th tone 4th tone.
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I believe 收據 and 發票 are quite commonly used in Taiwan, too. Been using them for over 2 decades without a hiccup.
You mean to say you’ve been using 載具 all this time to mean 收據 or 發票?
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All of those are commonly used in Taiwan. I personally don’t use 載具 (3rd tone 4th tone) to mean receipt but hear it all the time. Can’t recall having heard it used outside Taiwan.
Tell us how you really feel. While Pleco has slight inconsistencies with Taiwan Mandarin vs. the China Mandarin it’s based on, I find it’s gotten a lot better about making updates and having a little note at the bottom about TW pronunciation when it’s different. There are also rules in TW pronunciation that you kind of figure out. For a free app that works offline and doesn’t have ads, I’d suggest you shoot them a heads up anytime you find something that’s not accurate to your region.
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Thanks. You see I thought this was the only one that was available, some sort of catalogue of differences, rather than a self-contained dictionary of Taiwanese Mandarin. So if the Taiwan MOE dictionary will allow me to look up and verify local pronunciations I am very happy indeed. Over time, if certain words are not reinforced, the tone in my head is like a Jimi Hendrix riff, it seems to sort of bend and distort over time. I need to rely on an accurate dictionary to refresh my memory.
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Yes, on Pleco you can download and use the full MOE dictionary (u can also download the MOE cross-strait dict - but that’s something totally seperate). It doesn’t give any comparisons with non-taiwan usage or pronunciation; if, taking my example of 攻擊, the MOE dict will tell you the pronunciation is 1st 2nd tone. It’s an all Chinese dict.
However it doesn’t have an entry for 載具. This word is a bit of an oddball. My guess is that the use of 載具 to mean 發票 in Taiwan has only become common in recent years. My guess and that of a couple of my Taiwanese 顧問 is that 載具 was first used in the sense of saving the receipt to your mobile phone/saving it electronically and after that extended by some people to use as a synonym for “收據”
Right, the sense I use 載具 is in saving the receipt to my mobile phone. 收據 seems to be the little tab you get showing the credit card payment or what have you. Like a kind of proof that it went through to the bank. And ming2xi4 for the actual itemised print out. But this is just what I grokked from going to the shops, happy to be corrected.
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I started hearing it in the past six months. No one ever asked me if I wanted 載具 pre 2022. It was always 需要統編嗎？and now it’s 需要載具、統編嗎？
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Taxi drivers often say it. No idea what the distinction is.
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統編，統一編號， 發票，收據，載具，明細,明細單,收條。Eight ways and counting of how to say receipt. The exasperating richness of Mandarin!
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Chinesepod.com is way better. 101 is similar but way less content - and lower quality (except if it improved loads the last 3 years). Plus with chinesepod they offer everything also in traditional characters if you prefer.
Watching drama on iq.com or youtube or viki.com (if outside Asia for viki) is a very good way too. Iqiyi and youtube now tend to have usable subtitles too (this was not the case up to 2-3 years ago).
I just listened into the latest Abby podcast upper intermediate/advanced lesson. I think I prefer chinesepod - Abby and her friend talk way to slow for me to not go crazy. I mean fine for upper intermediate - but for advanced I would like proper speed. Listening to it at 1.25 makes it a bit better - but the main problem is the long breaks in between sentences.
If in Taiwan - use eatgether app if your high intermediate to advanced - best way to meet people for activities and no-one will speak english.
The test for you if you really reached advanced level is joining a werewolf role game. If you can make it through the usual 8-10 hours that Taiwanese play without freaking out because you miss too much - you will have mastered Chinese every day conversational level - I guess (I don’t make it longer than 5-6 hours before mentally passing out). It depends on the groups though sometimes it’s harder sometimes a bit easier.
I would say there are quite a lot of alternative to learning mandarin with Abby.
FlywithLily.com I would think is actually better - it’s intended as a podcast for Chinese to learn English - but it’s way more suitable to do the opposite and learn Taiwanese Mandarin (Lily is from Taiwan but her main audience are Chinese - so it’s pretty good mix). Maybe I’m influenced though as Lily is a friend of mine. But I think there are many podcasts you can use - none get anywhere near to Chinesepod however.
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How do you get to Carnegie Hall?
Practice, practice, practice.
My experience is I never hear 載具. I hear it asked to other people, just not myself. Until I’ve become a regular somewhere that is. Possibly another example of “stereotype flowchart” thinking where they assume a foreigner would have no use for electronic receipts. We’re just stoked to have an “EasyCard”, we can buy things man! Most of the time I have to lead the entire interaction in Mandarin while they stand there mouth agape, but I digress.
In terms of the electronic receipt platform it has been around for a lot longer than 6 months, I do realise that is not what you are saying. Maybe mass adoption has occurred, the oldies have finally cottoned on to electronic receipts and now service staff are finally verbally prompting. After all the old people market here is the most important one. One very big upside, most of those awfully stupid waste of space clear plastic buckets of receipts you used to see out the front of shops have disappeared too, you can donate your fapiao electronically now I believe.
Edit I just saw your comment about 統編. This one is different again, you are probably being profiled here. This is the business receipt. When I first arrived here I got asked it a lot. I’m pretty sure there was some “stereotype flowchart” kicking around that foreigners need these receipts, they used to ask it at Wellcome every time without fail. If you were a foreigner that is.
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It takes a special kind of masochist. But here we are.
I don’t live in Taiwan … yet, but I am curious why 載具 is being translated as electronic receipt. Are we sure we have the right characters there because isn’t 載具 a word for vehicles?
I think it’s it’s 載 as in 下載. That’s how I make sense of it.
Thanks. I thought about it, but why not call it 載票 or 載收? I guess what really threw me off is the accompanying character 具. Isn’t that the character for tools? So we have 家具 for furniture which makes sense, and then we have 載具, which means electronic receipt? Are we sure the later word wasn’t invented by some foreigner in a talk show?
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