Ways to get people to speak Chinese (not English) with you

This is not rude and on many levels other foreigners as well as I wonder about their intellectual level. One might argue that don’t care about other countries which is fine but they seem to lump all foreigners together. It is not just that some white person may not speak English. It is that they think all foreigners are American and all Americans seem to think alike. Of course there are some intelligent Taiwanese people and for the most part they are friendly but there over simplification of the world is sometimes naive.

Most of the people who speak English with me do it in stores where they aren’t “trying” to speak English, they are trying to get a job done, and they have been through the spiel so many times that their English in that context is definitely better than my Chinese. It makes perfect sense to just try to communicate with them in English.

Other times somebody just tries to strike up a conversation in which case I have to make a quick assesment, is this person someone I want to talk to in English? Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. If no I just respond in Chinese to whatever they say, if I can.

Iksbig hit the nail smack on earlier…

Patience “is” a virtue.

I know what you’re trying to say, and there is some of that, yes; but often it’s a case of them insisting on using English just because they want to practice it, just as you are insisting on using Chinese because you want to practice it.

Sometimes two people, both insisting on their own goal, butt heads over this. It’s certainly not them being wrong or unintelligent and you being right (in such cases). Furthermore, in such cases, you are a rare opportunity for them, whereas for you, there are countless opportunities to practice your Mandarin here. Besides, it’s their mouth. They get to decide what language comes out of it, just as you do. So I say just chill, try not to be selfish, and don’t let it bother you. :idunno:

It still bothers me, but I’ve found my way to avoid speaking English. I just give them a blank stare and pretend I don’t understand a word until they eventually switch to Chinese. Some folks it takes longer than others so I just ask them politely to speak Chinese. If they ask where I’m from, I tell them Spain or Mexico because I can speak Spanish very well, although I’ve never been tested by a Taiwanese person. I think once you’ve studied Chinese past a certain level you can be confident enough that your Chinese is better than the majority of Taiwanese, even in Taipei. We do, in fact, have the advantage living in a Chinese environment. Taiwanese may have studied English all of their life, but when it comes to conversation or being able to respond quickly they are usually lacking in that department.

For the servers who work in the foreigner hangout places, they’re speaking English all the time. I don’t mind being approached in English, but if they can’t take the hint after several back-and-forths, well then screw them. Their job is to make the customer satisfied, not to practice or show off their English. If they’re making their customers seethe with resentment, they’re not doing their jobs correctly. I’ve got my mental white list of places where I love to frequent because I feel the staff there treat me as an equal and black list of places that I avoid at all costs because I feel like the staff always treat me like a retarded child.

As an observation, (though not a piece of advice), I’d say that native speakers of Chinese are much happier to speak Chinese with non-native speakers whose tones are OK. Unfortunately, some NNSs will always have problems with tones, due to the way that language stuff gets set up in the brain at an early age. For some people, tones just don’t compute. They can produce accurate tones consciously, with some effort, but when it comes to fluent conversation, the tones just fall apart.

I have the opposite problem. My pronunciation, including tones, has always been passable. It’s not perfect by any means, but it’s clear and comfortable for NSs to listen to. That encourages them to bury me in swathes of incomprehensible Chinese input, as they think my level is much better than it really is.

There are of course a few people who insist on speaking English with me, for whatever reason. Doesn’t bother me. The only thing that I’m not too keen on is when someone keeps switching the language back and forth. It’s confusing as I don’t know which one they actually want to speak.

Taiwanese are quite selfish people in general and there is no ‘service’ culture here, so they project their wants and needs past the customer’s wants and needs, simple as that. They don’t care that you want to speak Chinese, it’s all about ME. I do the old Chinese-English thing aswell but sometimes I will use English back if they are polite or service oriented or just being nice.

The only guy who ever corrected my Chinese was my old workmate, a talented graphic designer with not one word of English. He would screw up his face listening me to mis-pronounce stuff, stop me right there and correct me in mid-flow. Ironically I appreciated that a lot.

Compare Taipei to Tokyo, a real cosmpolitan city secure in their own language, I loved getting yakked at in incomprehensible Japanese everywhere I went…

My pet hate is language mixing. Taiwanese, especially Taipei based business people, have a terrible habit of doing this. It’s not impressive and really grates the ears. You can be impressive with your own language by speaking it elonquently, something beyond most Taipei clone-like business people which is why I can’t stand most of them!

I have a similar problem with Thai. The words and phrases I’ve picked up half-arsed from the missus and lil’ princess are faultless, leading the listener to presume a much higher level of Thai ability than I actually have. Even when I point out I got only a smattering of what was said, they persist, even when their English is clearly better than my Thai (not hard, really).

As for forcing people to speak Chinese, well I only do that in HK, where I make the fuckers squirm in Mandarin, pointing out that I speak two out of the three official languages of the former colony, and if there’s a problem with communication, it’s the fault of the other party. I detest hearing it, but I do like correcting their crap Mandarin. I do graciously accept apologies, though.

When in Taiwan, personally I’m happy to speak whatever anyone wants to go with, of course if their English sucks, that needs to be pointed out. It’s a tool not a competition, so I readily revert to who has the better second language.

HG

What? Chinese has tones? :blush: :doh:

You could tie them up and whack them with one of those mosquito racquets. (Yes, that is how you spell racquet).

or use those little Chinese thumbcuffs.

This is what gets me. In certain cases I have really not understood the persons English but they didn’t seem to get the hint.

Well, few people actually try to speak English with me. The only people I really speak English with are my co-workers. If I go to a bar where foreigners hang out I don’t even attempt to speak Mandarin unless the person cannot speak English or does not want to.

I know what you’re trying to say, and there is some of that, yes; but often it’s a case of them insisting on using English just because they want to practice it, just as you are insisting on using Chinese because you want to practice it.

Sometimes two people, both insisting on their own goal, butt heads over this. It’s certainly not them being wrong or unintelligent and you being right (in such cases). Furthermore, in such cases, you are a rare opportunity for them, whereas for you, there are countless opportunities to practice your Mandarin here. Besides, it’s their mouth. They get to decide what language comes out of it, just as you do. So I say just chill, try not to be selfish, and don’t let it bother you.[/quote]

I think that’s missing the point. A lot of people, myself included, have at least some integrative motivation, at least some desire not to be treated as an outsider. If the employees of a certain establishment were to speak English to all their customers, it wouldn’t bother me at all. What irritates me is when it’s racially segregated, i.e., Chinese to the Asian-looking people and English to the big noses.

The reason this is annoying isn’t because hearing “你要喝什麼?” is going to somehow further my Chinese skills. It’s because if they say that to everyone else, but insist on saying “Hwat do you wan to drinkuh?” to me, it means treating me as an outsider. It’s less efficient since 99.9% of the time, their English is worse than my Chinese. But efficiency isn’t the main point. Integration is. After half a decade here, I don’t want to be automatically treated like that, especially when I’m paying them for the service!

What you should consider before saying “oh well, you both want to practice,” is that Mandarin is the national language here. A zealous Spanish student working as a waitress in Chicago couldn’t get away with insisting on speaking to all the Latin-looking customers in Spanish regardless of their preferences. Trying to help out foreigners struggling with the language is an admirable thing, but I really don’t see how refusing to speak the local language to people not of a certain race is defensible.

Yes, I was going to say this previously. I speak Mandarin to people because we are in Taiwan. I consider it the polite thing to do. In some cases I am sure that the Taiwanese person who is speaking English thinks they are being helpful.

Maybe customs are different than in Taiwan but I believe that anywhere in the US or Europe, service staff should reply to the person in the language the customer is speaking if they can speak that language. If someone speaks to you in Spanish you answer them in Spanish.

Agree with above, we just don’t want the recognition that we are outsiders after many years of living here we just want to get on with it and have a conversation about the weather (Taiwanese just don’t have the social skills for random conversation unfortunately), it’s annoying, especially when their English is terrible and communication would be much smoother and more natural in Chinese. It’s why I rarely go into Starbucks, I hate when they scream out ‘welcome to Starbucks’…ouch. Then again I’d hate that in any language!

[quote=“Xiaoma”]
I think that’s missing the point. A lot of people, myself included, have at least some integrative motivation, at least some desire not to be treated as an outsider. If the employees of a certain establishment were to speak English to all their customers, it wouldn’t bother me at all. What irritates me is when it’s racially segregated, i.e., Chinese to the Asian-looking people and English to the big noses.

The reason this is annoying isn’t because hearing “你要喝什麼?” is going to somehow further my Chinese skills. It’s because if they say that to everyone else, but insist on saying “Hwat do you wan to drinkuh?” to me, it means treating me as an outsider. It’s less efficient since 99.9% of the time, their English is worse than my Chinese. But efficiency isn’t the main point. Integration is. After half a decade here, I don’t want to be automatically treated like that, especially when I’m paying them for the service!

What you should consider before saying “oh well, you both want to practice,” is that Mandarin is the national language here. A zealous Spanish student working as a waitress in Chicago couldn’t get away with insisting on speaking to all the Latin-looking customers in Spanish regardless of their preferences. Trying to help out foreigners struggling with the language is an admirable thing, but I really don’t see how refusing to speak the local language to people not of a certain race is defensible.[/quote]

Xiaoma, how do they know that you have been here for 5 years rather than 5 months and want to integrate rather than plan on going home in the next few months? I know it’s frustrating but there isn’t a sign that you can wear in Taipei that says “speak to me only in Chinese”. Outside Taipei you have a better chance. I’ve only had issues with people continuing to speak in English in Taipei whereas elsewhere they are happy to speak in Chinese when they find out I can speak Chinese better than they can speak English.

You are an outsider because this isn’t a culture that is accustomed to integration. As someone else said on the flob, Taiwanese don’t really care about being an international city, they just pay lip service to the phrase. Unless they collectively change that view, you’re going to be continually frustrated. It isn’t going to change until the Taiwanese see themselves as a society open to immigrants who aren’t of Han ethnicity. Your 5 years really doesn’t matter until that happens. Even when it does, how do they know you are trying to integrate versus another long term foreigner in Taiwan who doesn’t speak any Chinese at all?

You’re right that Mandarin is the national language and that is why all “Asian-looking people” get Mandarin first. It would be a waste of time to start out with English when 99% of “Asian-looking people” are natives and speak Mandarin or Taiwanese. With the big noses it’s a crap shoot whether they can speak Chinese at all, and if they can, can it be readily understood by the native speaker in question. If you’re going to take a guess, its more likely that a foreigner is going to be able to speak English than any other language the native speaker may be able to speak. Given that job requirements here for English teachers, who are the largest visible foreigner segment for the majority of the population, have to come from an “English speaking country”, why is it so hard to see that people will speak English with you?

[quote=“steelersman”]
Maybe customs are different than in Taiwan but I believe that anywhere in the US or Europe, service staff should reply to the person in the language the customer is speaking if they can speak that language. If someone speaks to you in Spanish you answer them in Spanish.[/quote]

I don’t know about Europe so I won’t speculate. I know in the US though, just because someone speaks to you in Spanish doesn’t mean you are obligated to reply in Spanish. If you can speak Spanish better than they can speak English, then it helps to assist a transaction. If you can’t then you scramble for someone who can translate. There is no obligation for service staff to speak every language on the face of the earth just because someone started their conversation in a language different from our every day language, English. It’s helpful but unlikely outside of the Southwest and a few metropolitan areas in the North East to find lots of native Spanish speakers.

Hehe! If you’re South African, Afrikaans with all its guttural sounds would work a treat, too, I’d imagine!

lksbig, the point is you address them in Chinese and they reply in crap English…repeatedly, rather than have a proper conversation. Boring! A lot of foreigners speak quite passable Chinese these days. This phenomenom occurs all over Taiwan although it’s at is worst in Taipei…too many crappy Buxibans. You see it everywhere, you are talking to somebody in perfectly good Chinese and then their grandad, auntie, friend, somebody will but in and say ‘speak English’ and ‘practice your English’…idiots.

Xiaoma, I mainly agree with you. For a Taiwanese to speak English to a white person when they start talking is acceptable but just to continue blabing away in English is what gets me. Of course Mandarin is the national language but when was the last time you saw a non-asian and starting immediately speaking to them in Mandarin?

Thus I think it is fair that some Taiwanese speak English to foreigners when they start a conversation. Fair or not they assume that you cannot speak Mandarin just as you assume that you should speak English to other white people and people of African descent.