WCIF a list of words in Taiwanese borrowed from Japanese?

Language Taiwanese and Hakka Corner
1

Hi, I have a question for the resident chinese/taiwanese experts out there.

I’ve noticed a degree of borrowing in Taiwanese (not chinese) from Japanese, does anyone know where I might be able to get my hands on a comprehensive list?

cheers

[color=green]Mod note: This post was split by the mod so that each of two questions will be in separate threads. This allows the title to reflect the thread content, and also facilitates merging with extant threads, where appropriate. I’ve also edited the title to be reflective of the question content. -DB[/color]

2

okay…not much interest to far…perhaps to be expected as I’m asking rather a ‘niche’ question.

So far I’ve got. Perhaps someone could let me know the chinese and I can add that?

[ul]
[list=] bread Pan[jp] pan[tw]
[list=] world sekai [jp] segai [tw]
[list=] briefcase kaban [jp] kaban [tw]
[list=] easy kantan [jp gandan [tw]
[/ul]

3

I have a list in a Taiwanese text somewhere. I’ll try to post later.

4

[quote=“yamato”]world sekai [jp] segai [tw]
easy kantan [jp] gandan [tw][/quote]
One cannot assume that just because certain words sound alike in Taiwanese and Japanese, that it must have gone from JP to TW.

World is 世界 (pinyin: shi4jie4). This is also the way the Japanese would write it. It’s pronounced saigai in Cantonese and sekie in Hakka. The term 世界 may have come from the Japanese (I don’t really know), but the pronunciation certainly did not.

The same goes for easy, which is 簡單 (pinyin: jian1dan1; kanji: 簡単). I’m pretty sure the term 簡單 is of Chinese origin and the Japanese pronunciation is based on old Chinese. The pronunciation is gaandaan in Cantonese and gandan in Hakka.

You’ll notice that many Japanese ‘on’ pronunciation (sino-japanese reading) of words is quite similar to certain Chinese dialects. This is because they not only share some common written vocabulary, but all have retained overlapping aspects of old Chinese pronunciations that have since disappeared in Mandarin.

5

[quote=“sjcma”][quote=“yamato”]world sekai [jp] segai [tw]
easy kantan [jp] gandan [tw][/quote]
One cannot assume that just because certain words sound alike in Taiwanese and Japanese, that it must have gone from JP to TW.

World is 世界 (Pinyin: shi4jie4). This is also the way the Japanese would write it. It’s pronounced saigai in Cantonese and sekie in Hakka. The term 世界 may have come from the Japanese (I don’t really know), but the pronunciation certainly did not.

The same goes for easy, which is 簡單 (Pinyin: jian1dan1; kanji: 簡単). I’m pretty sure the term 簡單 is of Chinese origin and the Japanese pronunciation is based on old Chinese. The pronunciation is gaandaan in Cantonese and gandan in Hakka.

You’ll notice that many Japanese ‘on’ pronunciation (sino-japanese reading) of words is quite similar to certain Chinese dialects. This is because they not only share some common written vocabulary, but all have retained overlapping aspects of old Chinese pronunciations that have since disappeared in Mandarin.[/quote]

ah thanks…that’s very interesting. I wasn’t sure if it was Japanese lending to Taiwanese or vice versa…some of the words are very similar though and I’m interested in them. I think some are definitely loan words. ‘torakku’ must have come from the Japanese as with ‘Kaban’.

6

I think “obasan” and “ojisan” are safe bets.
I also get the impression that our beloved “bian dangs” are actually represented by characters borrowed from Japanese kanji–my wife has told me that a mainlander wouldn’t know what a “bian dang” is.