Wen Jiabao Makes New Year's Resolution: Taiwan Reunification

Politics Taiwan Politics
1

[quote]http://goldsea.com/Asiagate/502/07china.html

Premier Wen Jiabao also said Beijing must work to maintain stability this year by promoting democracy, the rule of law and justice,…

``At a time when all families gather together, we are missing the Taiwan compatriots on the other side of the straits,’’ Wen was quoted as saying in a speech to top leaders highlighting the government’s successes last year and plans for 2005.

 ``We pledge to work earnestly together with our 23 million Taiwan compatriots to achieve full unification of the country,'' Wen said, according to CCTV. [/quote]

I wonder what Frank Hsieh response to this will be. This will be interesting indeed to see if Frank is really intent on fostering an environment of reconciliation with the PRC or if he will just stay inline with TI faction

2

I would tell Frank to not believe in the Chinese lies just as our grandfathers and relatives did on 228. We should continue to steer a course that will lead us to become an independent nation instead of a Chinese colony.

3

Wen has a long way to go if he were to fulfill his words on democracy and rule of law. In the mean time I prefer to have voting rights to pick my legislative and executive branches of the government. With his pledges to democracy, I think Wen could display his sincerity by supporting a referendum in Taiwan for Independence or unification.

4

I object to Wen’s use of “compatriot” as a distortion of fact. Taiwan was never a part of the PRC founded in 1949. Furthermore, it is irrelavant what this Wen guy wants, as Taiwan is in no way ruled or controlled by China. Re-Unification is also political subterfuge as by saying re-unification implys that Taiwan was once part of the PRC which it never was.

Wen can wish for whatever he wants, it is up to the Taiwan people to decide if they want to become part of a country with no democracy, human rights, free press or freedom of religion to name just a few of the many injustices of that evil nation.

5

Well, you have neglected an important point. Wen is not speaking to Taiwan. He is speaking to the Chinese people. In his pledge, it matters little what Taiwanese think. He is catering to the expectations of his own countrymen. It does not matter that he distorts history or reality. He is telling them what the party wants them to hear, and…to a great extent because of a generation of limited information…what the Chinese people believe.

So you are free to object, but Wen will say what he wants. It is another country’s domestic politics. More importantly is working on Taiwan’s domestic and international spheres to counter such lunacy in the long run. Of course, KMT/PFP produce quite a bit of complementary lunacy themselves…

6

Uhm do you have objection to the term Mainland compatroits that is commonly used on Taiwan. Or when ROC politician speak of evenutal reunification with the Mainland. I mean yeah it is historically more accurate I guess.

My fear is even more ironic. Let’s say PRC does achieve a form of a republic government that the west is more familar and comfortable with. And let’s say PRC with their more “democratic” system decide to adopt an USA-like “pre-emption” policy.

ROC will no longer be unique as the only Chinese nation with democracy. What will we use as the argument then with West for their support? Our broken English sounds better? Our tanned Taiwanese girl look better in burberry skirts and binglang stands?

7

Don’t hold your breath. :unamused:

8

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
My fear is even more ironic. Let’s say PRC does achieve a form of a republic government that the west is more familar and comfortable with. And let’s say PRC with their more “democratic” system decide to adopt an USA-like “pre-emption” policy. [/quote]

Well, if that is truly your fear, then you don’t really believe in Peaceful Rising now do you? :laughing: :smiling_imp: Sorry, has to throw that reference to another thread in there.

9

Ordinarily, democracies don’t make war on other democracies, let alone make war on them for the purpose of annexation.

There may be exceptions to this, but offhand, I can’t think of any.

10

Ordinarily, democracies don’t make war on other democracies, let alone make war on them for the purpose of annexation.

There may be exceptions to this, but offhand, I can’t think of any.[/quote]

This is a common political science topic. I believe it has shown to be false. Given the fact wars are pretty uncommon to begin with. I believe the premise of no two countries with McDonald’s go to war was shown to have more empirical evidence at one point.


Here is the list of the 22 wars between democracies.It’s quite a satirical site. The author also makes light of statistical analysis and disproves the McDonald theory with one empirical example (I disgree of course, since the UN is a democracy (republic) by proxy and doesn’t govern any particular State.)

But I believe the American Civil War is the best analogy to use if a war between a “democratic” ROC and a “democratic” PRC were to occur.

11

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote]http://goldsea.com/Asiagate/502/07china.html

Premier Wen Jiabao also said Beijing must work to maintain stability this year by promoting democracy, the rule of law and justice,…

``At a time when all families gather together, we are missing the Taiwan compatriots on the other side of the straits,’’ Wen was quoted as saying in a speech to top leaders highlighting the government’s successes last year and plans for 2005.

 ``We pledge to work earnestly together with our 23 million Taiwan compatriots to achieve full unification of the country,'' Wen said, according to CCTV. [/quote]

I wonder what Frank Hsieh response to this will be. This will be interesting indeed to see if Frank is really intent on fostering an environment of reconciliation with the PRC or if he will just stay inline with TI faction

12

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote=“xp+10K”]Ordinarily, democracies don’t make war on other democracies, let alone make war on them for the purpose of annexation.

There may be exceptions to this, but offhand, I can’t think of any.[/quote]

This is a common political science topic. I believe it has shown to be false. . . .
Here is the list of the 22 wars between democracies.[/quote]

Your original point seemed to be that a democratic China could launch a pre-emptive strike against Taiwan, following the example of the US invasion of Iraq. I don’t think we need to concern ourselves overmuch about that hypothesis’ being tested any time soon in the case of China and Taiwan, because I don’t think China will be a democracy any time soon. (I’d love to turn out to be wrong on that one.)

That having been said, I still think I need to make some effort toward addressing your more recent assertions, the ones quoted directly above:

[quote=“ac_dropout’s source, users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm”]
Greek Wars, 5th and 4th Centuries BCE
Democracies: City-states such as Athens, Syracuse et. al.[/quote]
It’s true that Syracuse had a democracy at the time of the Peloponnesian Wars. However, democratic Athens’ chief opponent was Sparta:

[quote]At the head of the [Spartan] state stood two hereditary kings. . . . [/quote]Wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta#Constitution

As with many monarchies, an argument can be made that Sparta’s government was really an oligarchy.

See also xenophongi.org/milhist/greece/pelowar.htm (Archidamus, Agis and Pausanius were kings of Sparta during the Peloponnesian Wars.)

[quote]Corinth after the tyranny was ruled by the aristocrats under a Council of eighty members. . . .
When the Peloponnesian war ended, democrats took over the power in Corinth. . . . [/quote] sikyon.com/Korinth/history_eg.html

During the Peloponnesian War, the Theban oligarch Leontiades tried to involve Thebes on the side of Sparta, but shortly after that, democrats, with the help of Athenians, took over the Theban government. Subsequently, democratic Thebes defeated Sparta twice. sikyon.com/Thebes/history_eg.html

In other words, the only major member of the Delian League to refuse to oppose Athens was Thebes, and that was because of the actions of democrats.

[quote=“ac_dropout’s source, users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm”]
Punic Wars, 2nd and 3rd Centuries BCE
Democracies: Rome vs. Carthage.[/quote] [quote]Carthage’s government was an oligarchy, not unlike that of republican Rome, but only few details are known.[/quote] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage

[quote=“ac_dropout’s source, users.erols.com/mwhite28/demowar.htm”]
American Revolution, 1775-1783[/quote]

[quote]George III (George William Frederick) (4 June 1738

13

When a free and democratic China is a reality, I would listen and pay attention to your views, but the words and actions from a dictatorship we cannot trust.

14

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
But I believe the American Civil War is the best analogy to use if a war between a “democratic” ROC and a “democratic” PRC were to occur.[/quote]

I’ll bite. Why?

15

[quote=“X3M”]When democracy is established…
Meanwhile let’s invite Status Quo to our little country.[/quote]

I’m not trying to antagonize you, X3M, but I can’t help but ask:

(1) What if democracy is not established in China any time soon?
(2) What if the day comes when China appears to be about to carry out its stated intention to take Taiwan by force no matter what?
(3) What if the day comes (or has already come) when the US cannot or will not continue to do its part in the “status quo” arrangement?

16

[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“ac_dropout”]
But I believe the American Civil War is the best analogy to use if a war between a “democratic” ROC and a “democratic” PRC were to occur.[/quote]

I’ll bite. Why?[/quote]
Because Taiwan is part of China thus it’s a civil war of course! :unamused:

17

Not to mention the liberation of the Japanese Slave on Taiwan. :slight_smile:
And freeing the abused women in the bing lang trade. :unamused:

The whole Strait Issue is rooted in the history of the Chinese Civil war which started when the KMT expelled the CCP from ROC.

Even though the pan-Green wish to disassociate themselves from this part of ROC history. It is part of ROC, Taiwan history now and must be dealt with directly and diplomatically with the PRC.

The pan-Green strategy of systematic denial is not helping the situation either.

18

Exactly. History. As in in the past. You can’t seriously be saying that the Chinese Civil War is still going on, surely?

19

The military war is over for now. But the political and diplomatic conflict still exists.

The threat of war caused by the ending of the unofficial cease-fire between the Strait is very real.

Don’t let the false bravado and incompetent performance in foreign policy by the DPP let you think otherwise.

20

Answer me properly instead of talking around the point. Do you or do you not honestly believe the Chinese Civil War is still going?