Western family with kids - Pros & cons of life in Taipei

Got an email from a Dutch friend last week. Her husband has been offered to relocate for his company to Taipei, ex-pat contract, corportate job, etc.

They’re considering it and she asked me whether I thought it was a good idea.

I’m not sure what to say yet. I have loved it here, I think Taipei is a great place for someone like me, but not sure it’s for everyone. For one, I was single when I came here and they have two small children. I don’t know how it is for ex-pat families with children.

You guys here in Parenting certainly know more about that. It’d be nice if you could offer some advice. I’ll send her the link to this.

Thanks! :slight_smile:

I know tons of people with families - many of them neighbors at Lotus Hill. Family Life can be very sweet here.

Let’s presume that they can choose where they live, is Lotus Hill a good place to live?
I know it’s up the hill in NeiHu, which is quite a bit away from ‘downtown’, but it’s really clean and quiet, right? How about if she’s stay at home mom, is there enough for her up there to do and not go insane from isolation?

Lots to do and lots of places to go. Just did the beach thing with a couple of families and their kids up in Fulong. Twas niiiice.

If the kids are young, bilingual kindy will get them up to speed in Chinese fast.

On an ex-pat package their life will be sweet, no probs.
They’ll get a beautiful apartment in a very nice part of town and their kids will go to an international school, so no worries about language.

Let’s presume that they can choose where they live, is Lotus Hill a good place to live?
I know it’s up the hill in Neihu, which is quite a bit away from ‘downtown’, but it’s really clean and quiet, right? How about if she’s stay at home mom, is there enough for her up there to do and not go insane from isolation?[/quote]
Yes, it’s as clean and quiet as you can get within 30 minutes of downtown. There is already a fair number of expat wives here (a lot of China Airlines foreign pilots and their families live here, and there is also a fair number of Taiwanese women married to foreigners, and they can be a nice buffer into the local culture. There’s lots to do here in terms of leisure activities - well-equipped, clean gym, outdoor and heated indoor pool, spa, DVD store, a few restaurants, a specialty food store (they even have sour cream), a convenience store, a dry cleaners, tennis courts, and lots of stroller-friendly paths with beautiful landscaping, waterfalls, fish ponds, and reasonable rents.

If you want to get out of the complex for a while, there’s a regular shuttle bus that takes you directly to the Taipei City Hall MRT.

Here are some pics of Lotus Hill, and here’s the Forumosa “Lotus Hill” thread.

I recall the poster ‘Indiana’ is a westerner here, ex-pat family. (Sorry guys, you lot don’t count, you have Taiwanese someone’s.) Maybe she could share her experiences with you.

From the expats in my office, I’ve heard both good and bad stories. Mostly good, but the one colleague says it’s been extremely difficult for the wife with 2 very young babies. What’s been very hard on them is not having a support network of family members to look after the 2 babies. Previously, the mother was a very active person and had that lifestyle but that’s not available now. So, coupled with poor/non-existent support network and language capabilities, living has been hard. OTOH, another couple with a ~1 year old baby, it’s not been as hard. FWIW, the expats I encounter all live in Tianmu-Beitou area which to me is the center of expat living.

When they come it makes a big difference to already have a support system set up. A lot of parents find us at parentpages. Make aqquaintance with other moms, join playgroup’s mailing list, find prospective baby sitters etc. Then once they get here they’re set to go.

My wife and I have been here since January with our 8 month old daughter.

In terms of necessities, we seem to have everything covered… which basically boils down to diapers and Gerber/Hipp baby food.

Having a baby has been a real double-edged sword. On the one hand, she has been an ice-breaker and people who would not have spoken to us or given us the time of day, readily come up and say hello. We have met our best friends (tea shop owners) because they wanted to say hello to the baby. On the other hand, everyone is constantly coming up and saying hello, pointing, staring, and worst - touching. It’s one thing to feel like we are the feature exhibit at the zoo … it’s a complete different experience to feel like the lama at the petting part. Every grubby pawed kid, betel nut chewing resident park dweller, and lesioned janitor feels entitled to come grab the baby’s hand, rub her cheeks, or kiss her face while we’re changing her diaper. Hack, hack, cough, cough, rub a dub-dub. Motor scooters stop and back up to grab her as we cross the street, cart vendors and hair salon women coming running down the street after us, and the bus or MRT? - forget about it.

On a related note - doctors. I’m sure in the right ex-pat area of town everything is kosher. Here in Sinjhuang City I get a bit nervous. The day-to-day stuff seems fine. We got our 6 month injections here, and while the meds were not exactly the same as in the US, Dr. Tsai (btw, is it a good thing that she was trained in the Philippines? I’ve seen that come up a couple of times as a positive in internet posts.)reassured us they were fine, if not quite as strong as the US. The assistants were pretty slow between injections and had to keep walking back and forth to the medicine cabinet to get the next shot while the baby screamed, but everything seemed on the up and up. It is the less routine stuff that has us a bit stressed - and a lot of that probably has to do more with being new parents than the quality of medicine being practiced. For example, the baby has developed eczema over the last month of two. Is there a good dermetologist for an infant here? How do I find him/her. And since the medicines are less potent here, is it even worth it? And how much of her skin flare up is a product of the pollution?

Pollution - if your friends aren’t from a city get ready to learn to suck a little exhaust. The bus and moped motors sometimes feel like they are aimed at the baby’s face while she is in her stroller. And good luck finding a level sidewalk to push her around on. Again, I think location would be key and 30 minutes outside the city itself sounds great.

The pollution does not only affect the lungs, but also food. Our baby is still eating from the Gerber and Hipp baby food jars, but we are steadily transitioning away from that to well, more solid solids. We actually found a little organic lettuce the other day at Wellcome, but all I’ve read about is how toxic most of the veggies are here. Dioxin in the rice, heavy metals in the water. For us, eh, whatever … for her? Maybe a little bigger deal. Trying to provide a healthy nutritious diet for a youngster is difficult, even when cooking at home. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but it is difficult. Do we give her the green pepper and all it’s vitamins knowing it is also covered in pesticides? It’s like keeping the bath water more or less out of the baby’s mouth while she bathes … doable but difficult.

There are certainly positives to having a child here. 1) Can’t beat the exposure to a second language. 2) The Taiwanese seem to love babies and are very friendly - “so cute!” 3) Getting to experience another culture. 4) Lots of stimulation (over-stimulation?).

I would emphasize that location is paramount. We are in Sinjhuang City (Taipei County) and that has been difficult for us with baby. We do feel very isolated - even with a bit of a support network. Not being able to drive is frustrating and augments the sense of isolation. It feels a bit odd typing that, because at the same time we are always the center of attention. We often joke that it’s a good thing the baby’s so young or she’d be developing quite the ego (at McDonalds, out for tea, in the grocery milk isle, at the park, everywhere “oh ke I oh!”). I actually spend most of the time with the baby, but I’m sure my wife could add a lot.

We do like Taiwan, and have especially enjoyed getting to meet lots of people through the baby. But I would certainly do a “pro vs. cons” list. Not just professionally, but also for the kids. For us, we are here on a nine month grant and, quite frankly, knowing that we will be leaving makes most of the negatives for the baby bearable. On the other hand, perhaps if we had a longer commitment, maybe we’d do a better job of finding solutions to our issues.

Forumosa has been a real life saver for us and they should definitely check it out if they haven’t yet.

Anyway, just some thoughts from a noob (both parent and Taiwanese resident).

In my opinion, that’s a good thing if only because the Philippines-trained doctors seem to have a better, warmer bedside manner.

As for meds, interestingly I’ve read the opposite here at Forumosa. Did Dr. Tsai explain why, in his/her opinion, the meds were more potent in the US?

A friend recommended an allergist downtown. I can try to look up the name and post here.

My daughter also had eczema when she was a baby and I used Aveeno natural bath products for her skin, now available at Costco. As for pushing a stroller on the sidewalks alot of us moms here use slings instead and save the strollers for shopping or the zoo etc.

Also forgot to add that I try to buy most of my fruit, veggies and rice at the organic shop. More and more of these are spring up all around Taiwan so you should be able to find one nearby. Some stuff is local so I don’t know how organic it actually is but some is import as well.

Hope this helps,

[quote]
As for meds, interestingly I’ve read the opposite here at Forumosa. Did Dr. Tsai explain why, in his/her opinion, the meds were more potent in the US? [/quote]

Yes she did, although I’m not sure if I remember exactly. I think it was specifically for the HepB injection. In the US, we had gotten Pediarix brand and here it was Engerix (sp? doc handwriting a bit tough to read). Anyway, I think it had something to do with the different combinations … maybe in the US we get two meds in one shot and here they get three, or vice versa? Somehow, the HepB was not as protective as the stuff we got at home.

Dr. Tsai noted a number of times that the meds were used in Europe (maybe Germany?) to reassure us and made sure we were clear that the HepB was not as protective - but still very good.

I wish I could be clearer, but honestly, we were getting the shots one way or another, they aren’t going to change the meds they can or do use, and some protection was better than none at all - especially with the HepB.

(FWIW - the other brand they used here was InfrarixIPVHIB (again sp?) and the 6 month shots at the private clinic cost us $7,440 NT without insurance).

[quote]My daughter also had eczema when she was a baby and I used Aveeno natural bath products for her skin, now available at Costco. As for pushing a stroller on the sidewalks alot of us moms here use slings instead and save the strollers for shopping or the zoo etc.

Also forgot to add that I try to buy most of my fruit, veggies and rice at the organic shop. More and more of these are spring up all around Taiwan so you should be able to find one nearby. Some stuff is local so I don’t know how organic it actually is but some is import as well.

Hope this helps,[/quote]

Thanks for the lead on the Aveeno. We’ve been using Vasoline and that’s been pretty effective. Today was a bit of a nightmare, and I’d be interested to know if it has anything to do with the really elevated pollution levels.

Fortunately, we brought our Bjorn sling with us and it has been a life saver … and a back breaker. :wink: In fact, our deluxe City Savvy Combi stroller that Grandma gifted to us has barely seen the light of day, both because of the 12+ inch drops in sidewalk height, but also because we make a much bigger target crossing the road. Alone, the Frogger game is easy if you keep an eye on the buses (I figure a scooter collision is at worst a torn ACL), and with the Bjorn I still feel pretty nimble, but using a stroller around here is just begging for big time trouble. I keep picturing that scene from the Sandra Bullock movie Speed where the bus crushes that stroller and all the cans go flying, except it’s the baby. :noway:

The thing that surprises me about the sling is that it doesn’t discourage people from coming up and grabbing the baby. You’d think with the little one strapped to my chest that people might hesitate, but no. Also, on a lighter note, I would love to know how many cell phone pictures of my chin there are floating around Taiwan. Especially on the MRT, people come up with their cell phone cameras and take pics of the baby while she is strapped to my chest, an inch or two below my chin.

As for the organic food stores, I’ve been to a handful of them in Taipei. Canned or bottled goods certainly seem in good supply, although I’ve had less success with veggies. Transporting them an hour back home on the MRT+bus with a baby strapped to the chest (see above) and a diaper bag over the shoulder isn’t exactly easy. Costco sometimes has carrots or even peppers or other veggies, which has been great and closer. Like I said in the original post, eating healthy can be largely done, it just takes some work and planning.

Quick question, is the “Bio Tech” stuff (lettuce and peppers) at Wellcome organic, or just a hothouse/greenhouse/hydroponic product?

The one thing that I do miss that I haven’t seen anywhere is organic milk. I’ve looked at Jason’s, Cottonfield’s, the smaller shops I stumble across. If you have a lead on organic milk anywhere in Taiwan I would be greatly, greatly, appreciative.

The wellcome produce is greenhouse hydroponic. For organic veggies, go to Cottonfields. Their stuff is grown in Hualien. Cottonfields has passed all organic quality tests and is recommended by the consumer foundation. Their branch on Xinyi near daan park has a wide selection of veggies. They also have a branch just south of Taipower MRT on Roosevelt Road.

fishy76,

Are you sure the baby is suffering from skin allergies, or could it be heat rash/prickly heat? My daughter gets heat rash on her back a lot, it looks like little red bumps with some red coloring on the smooth skin around the bumps. I got some good ointment from the clinic near my place, it cleared it up very quickly. Now I the prickly heat powder from Watsons or Burt’s Bee’s dusting powder to control it. It is worst during this warm, humid weather and should get better as the air gets drier.

Hey, I just wanted to stop by and say thanks for giving so much feedback, everyone.

You totally lost me on these baby details, but I’m sure my friend will find them useful, so keep them coming! :smiley:

I’m also glad to hear that many families live happily here. It’s not just us singles. Yay! :slight_smile:

fishy76,

I also wanted to check, have you visited parentpages (http://www.parentpages.net)? There is a lot of information there specifically for families in Taiwan, and lots of people to help you with family-related questions (where to find baby things, health issues, doctor discussions etc). There are families based in Taipei county so you might find some people a little closer to you.
And there is also a cityplaygroup you might like to join, getting together with English-speaking parents and kids helps a lot at times.