What am I doing wrong here?

What super_lucky said. Exactly what super_lucky said. Print it out and pin it on your dorm room wall. Mating 101, as it should be taught in college.

Oh, and I suggest not using that word “dating”, even in your head. It’s a weasel word. We all know what it means.

Confidence is attractive. Desperation is absolutely not. The awful part is that (as per super_lucky’s post) you feel most confident when you’re actually getting laid. Still, what ya gonna do? Life is unfair, and women are illogical. Deal with it.

Not sure if this helps, but here goes: my first year or so at university was a major, horrible dry spell. In retrospect, I was absolutely miserable there, I hated the course, and I probably radiated desperation. After a while I sort of went through the pain barrier and came out the other side to a more placid psychological place. I found interesting stuff to do (unrelated to my shitty university course) and things to smile about. And I started getting attention I wasn’t even looking for. I found a gf who I spent the next 8 years with. I’m not sure how you make this happen, but here’s the bottom line: if you look desperate and act desperate women will simply avoid you. Live your life, hum that awful Supremes song in your head, and stuff will sort itself out.

I’m going to largely ignore the rest of this thread, as any posts that say what Taiwanese girls do/think/want tend to annoy me, but will add that yes, my (now) wife was the one to ask me out first. Talking about it later, she says she didn’t think of the first time as a date, but enjoyed it and then wanted to keep seeing me, so asked me out to a few more things. It does happen.

its happened to me more times than i can count. if the girl is comfortable with you and curious about you why wouldn’t she? as i said, just get to know them and don’t go out on hunting mode and they should be interested enough to ask you to meet after some time has passed. if they are more shy you can ask them, if they are interested with you at least. if they don’t show any interest move on to the next… personally i wouldn’t date anyone i didn’t get to know a little bit first either so i don’t see what the problem is. if someone asked me out cold i wouldn’t be feeling it either unless they were really hot or something.

tommy’s two cents (worth maybe one penny) on this matter. Lots of good thoughts have been expounded here.

Have a life, live your life , act like you have things going on. Have your shit together so people are attracted to you. Don’t just sit around waiting for things to happen…they don’t usually. All good points. DIfficult to get girls in your own class at school. Too much going on. You have to have the approval of the whole group. There are girls that don’t want to bring you home to daddy/mommy or introduce you to her friends but she can STILL be awesome for YOU. And that is what really matters first .

I will add be “selectively proactive” (don’t be some douche trying to hit up every girl you see) . In other words identify a person of interest in a situation that allows interaction.

Passing a pretty girl on the street. That is NOT a good situation for positive interaction. Finding someone attractive on a bus and sitting next to her, this COULD be a situation for conversation and “friend making”, the first step to a relationship of any sort. WAiting in line to go into a club or at the movies or a wine tasting. Stand close to a girl you are interested in. Listen to her conversing with her girl friends (if she came with another girl). See if you can make yourself catch her eye. Then approach her later with an innocent line. She won’t see you as a total stranger, but remember she saw you in line behind her. Behind is better then in front. If you are in front, it’s awkward should you look behind yourself at her or turn your body towards her. If you are behind her, its natural for you to be seeing her in front of you and she will probably at some point turn and see you behind her. Everyone wants to know who is behind them at some point.

Ex gf said this “cool looking guy” stood behind her waiting to get into a wine tasting event in Taipei. She definitely noticed him. He made no move while in line. Later during the event he was able to " come over with a bottle to share". Very smooth ! He was a smooth operator oh yeah. She claims that she went back to his apartment later and “nothing happened” . Yup , I believe it. Don’t you? Only two people know what went on that evening and I am not one of them.

So yes, you do need to work at it. Although there are times, that a lady will be the one to initiate action, those are more rare. Usually you have to be doing something. Catching her eye by looking at her in an interested (but not freaky) way.

And you have to be a catch yourself in SOME WAY. You should look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself , would you DATE YOU?? NO? Why not? How can you change to make that a YES.

Being attractive is helpful. But not essential. Having money is very helpful ,but not totally essential. But having a great attitude and attractive personality, that really is a MUST. At least if you want to go on a second date with the same girl.

Many books have been written, movie scripts made and acted out. Myriad of stories and how to, etc etc.

Long and short of it. You do have to be someone worth getting to know in some manner. You do have to be proactive and work at it. You do have to find a good situation to be in with a prospective sexual partner. And yes “luck” plays a role in this somewhere too.

Luck can help you win at any game, but practice practice practice and good coaching certainly ups your chances.

I’ve met girls at cafes, waiting for buses, at the swimming pool, at the beach, on a train, bus, in an elevator , on a plane, waiting in line at immigration . There are literally tons of places that one can meet a prospective partner. I must have been “lucky”.

I don’t think the OP is looking for signs the girls like him.

[quote=“finley”]What super_lucky said. Exactly what super_lucky said. Print it out and pin it on your dorm room wall. Mating 101, as it should be taught in college.
[/quote]

I second that! super_lucky said it all, but here’s my input on the situation.

Don’t take all the comments on the forums too personally. It’s a tough life when you fall into the stereotype of foreigner wanting to get with a local girl. A large majority of posts here in the sub-forum tend to have OP’s that want to hit a home run on day one with no effort given.

Anyways, I can’t say I’m in the same boat as you, I never came to university here, so I’ve never played the university dating game. However, I’ve played the dating game. It took me about a full 7-8 months to ask my gf to…be my gf. In between that time, I got to know her in a group, talked to her via MSN messenger (yes, it was that long ago), went out more with her and a group of friends and then finally managed to ask her out on a one on one date that lead to more one on one dates.

I know your situation is a little different you’re in school and also hang out with similar group of classmates. Once the word gets out, people talk, she gets ashamed and may lose face. Do not let her lose face. In her mind, It could be worse than losing a limb. However, just make sure if she’s in the same concentration as you, to ease into dating. If she’s worth your time, you gotta convince her and your group of friends that you both are a good match. I know that’s a lot of work, but you’ll know whether it’s worth it or not.

The most advice I can give you, that I usually give others that struggle with trying to get a local girl on a one on one date is to ease into it. Start off with a big group, then go smaller and smaller, sooner or later she’ll be comfortable with being alone with you and you can go on with actually dating her.

The advice about not looking too desperate is an approach I had when I had failed to get dates with girls back when I was single. Really, just go with the flow. Girls can sense that you are desperate, but they can also tell if you’re genuinely interested in them. It’s some kind of 6th sense, don’t ask how I know, because I don’t know why I know, I just know they do. :laughing:

[quote=“strider”]
The only advice I can find, really, is to “back off a bit” and, possibly allow the girl to make the suggestion? I would have to ask, is that actually your own experience, that you’ve met a girl, waited it out, and she asked you out, here in Taiwan? Can anyone else confirm this? Cuz I’ve pretty much never heard of that happening. I mean, sure girls throw themselves at me from time to time, but, well, they aren’t the girls I’d like to date : p[/quote]
Um, yeah! Women want to [strike]date[/strike] I mean have sex too y’know. I wouldn’t necessarily call it “waiting it out” though. I wasn’t waiting for anything. If a woman liked me, cool, she’d express a desire to spend more time together. I’d take the hint and arrange more concrete plans if I was interested. If not, cool, I had a nice conversation. Some just wanted to go to the movies, some wanted day trips some just wanted sex or some combination of these things. The “work” is in living a life that expresses you’d be a really great person to spend time with. Let them sort themselves out and find you, chasing women is the fool’s game imho. That’s been my experience anyway.

Lot’s of college students here are recovering lesbians. You may try fishing in a different pool.

I don’t think they are recovering at all.

Just ask for their phone number.

You will gauge how their interest is just from that.
If she just says give me yours, smile and walk off. You would be wasting your time.
Forgot Line. Call them about 4 days afterwards.
Again if she is interested, you will know from the call and her voice.

And don’t get involved in nonsensical line and text messaging. It’s a waste of time. They use it to weed you out. You can not garner anything like body language, etc over a message on a phone.

“I’ve met girls at cafes, waiting for buses, at the swimming pool, at the beach, on a train, bus, in an elevator , on a plane, waiting in line at immigration . There are literally tons of places that one can meet a prospective partner. I must have been “lucky”.”

Yes, yes indeed. And so have I. That’s exactly what I’m doing. And I imagine, you struck up a conversation with them? And, knowing that you have about a .001% chance of ever seeing this person again, UNLESS you ask for their number, and UNLESS she also finds you interesting and attractive, there is nothing “needy” about living in the moment and having no doubts about yourself to the point that you are capable of ACTING, right then and there, on your instincts that this person you just met is someone you would be interested in spending some time with and getting to know better at a later, better point and time. In the course of a week, how many of hundreds of people do you bump into? And I’m asking out about one of them. That’s being pretty damn picky if you ask me.

So I’ll repeat: I meet a girl, strike up a conversation, and if there is chemistry and she seems to be enjoying the conversation, isn’t making excuses to leave, is voluntarily asking me personal questions, etc. etc. (need I list the infinite ways in which a woman expresses interest?) then eventually I say something like “well, I’d like to see you again some time, what’s your schedule like, how about Wednesday, how can I reach you, whatever” and she offers her information. Generally, they are all quite happy to chat and talk and continue our conversation via line or etc., but it’s when we get back to the “date” that we agreed on, they disappear.

I’ll also repeat: I’m not doing anything differently than I would do it back in the States, and if I so chose, I could easily count on having several dates a month if I wanted to. Therefore, suggested problems, such as 1. you are needy and 2. the problem is you are talking to girls you meet or 3. the problem is that you are asking girls out. 4. whatever other obvious nonsense is being suggested. The idea Taiwanese girls ought to be walking up to me in the grocery store and asking me out is completely absurd. If that’s how it works for everyone else, all I can say is that that is absolutely not how it works for me.

Thus, also, my question, regarding cultural differences. Obviously, what is normal and works where I’m from, is suddenly not working here. What’s different? Did I really turn into some desperate, needy, slovenly wreck on the plane ride over? OR did I find myself in a culture I don’t understand? I’m going with option B.

I do suppose there is a lot of truth in the whole “get outside of the campus because it’s a small closed system and the relationship would be very visible.” However, the problem there is, I estimate about 2% of the women I’ve approached outside of campus were capable of holding a conversation in English. It’s about 30% at school. That’s really the reason at the end of the day. However, the 4 or 5 girls or so that I’ve met outside of school who could speak English, the result was the same, so I hesitate to blame it entirely on that.

So again, the question is, for those of you who have actual EXPERIENCE asking out and dating women in their 20’s in this country, what insights do you have into what’s normal, comfortable for the girls, etc, etc. that I should either be aware of or else include when chatting with one for the first time, or any culturally relevant information I should have, if I’d like to start getting different results?

[quote=“strider”]
So I’ll repeat: I meet a girl, strike up a conversation, and if there is chemistry and she seems to be enjoying the conversation, isn’t making excuses to leave, is voluntarily asking me personal questions, etc. etc. (need I list the infinite ways in which a woman expresses interest?) then eventually I say something like “well, I’d like to see you again some time, what’s your schedule like, how about Wednesday, how can I reach you, whatever” and she offers her information. Generally, they are all quite happy to chat and talk and continue our conversation via line or etc., but it’s when we get back to the “date” that we agreed on, they disappear. [/quote]

Frankly, don’t ask em out for a straight up date (with just the two of you). Inviting over to some house party, BBQ (whatever as long as it doesn’t look like a straight-up date) is less effort for you and gives her the opportunity to convince herself that she’s just going out instead of for a ride (yes, girls love loving their self image and need to have some excuse… whatever). More effective with collage girls, for sure…

[quote=“strider”]
Thus, also, my question, regarding cultural differences. Obviously, what is normal and works where I’m from, is suddenly not working here. What’s different? Did I really turn into some desperate, needy, slovenly wreck on the plane ride over? OR did I find myself in a culture I don’t understand? I’m going with option B. [/quote]

Nah, for sure ya haven’t turded, but mayhaps you give to much thought about “culture”? Sure, some people enjoy feeling “lost”, but why bother? Bringing up this topic with a tw girls is just boring n made me feel (n them thinking about me) like an idiotic nerd to whom everything seems like “exotic”. It isn’t. Don’t make em feel special about being culturaly asian or whatever… (In fact, i’d argue to never make em feel special… harhar) Also eventually, it’s a great idea to make em shut up about any food topics, anything much wow, and every other shite topic, they oft come up with. Don’t give em opportunity to make you listen to their broken record autopilot speech. If you really need to talk about culture thingy s, choose a smart approach like how classic Chinese painting brush stroke techniques are a reflection of Confucianism and why Pollock is awesome n not Chinese. Nine out of ten will feel impressed, stop listening to what you say and start looking at your hands. Or make her drunk.

Plus what super-lucky wrote.

Plus your account dates back from 2009… hope ya aint trolling.

Well one thing different that I did was to immediately suggest someplace she and I could go to continue the conversation that we were enjoying.

In other words get more glue on the then very shakey relationship while the ether was still there. Before she realizes you are up to no good.

Otherwise she goes away and rethinks your invite and thinks it’s iffy and fails to show.

If she declines your offer for no legit reason then all you had was air anyway.

Then just give her your number and let her call you

But don’t hold your breath , have other lines in the water, lots of lines.

If they call you and set up a meet then they will most likely show up

Been here for 6 years and still struggling? Is it even possible?

TAiwanese girls mainly speak mandarin and taiwanese. If you don’t speak either very well, your chances are severely restricted.

so find some that speak english… simple.

I can tell you what I think but I doubt you’ll pay any attention to it.

Firstly, if you are a western guy the right side of 35 it should be extremely easy to date women in their 20s in Taiwan. That is the actual reality of the actual world in which we are actually existing right now. This thread is irritatingly silly. There is no need to put EXPERIENCE in capital letters, as the only person in this thread without that is most likely yourself.

The reason the girls won’t date you is they don’t like you. The only reason they were talking to you is because you started the conversation and they didn’t want to be rude. Being polite and pretending to be interested allows them to escape safely. If the signs of interest they showed were genuine they would go a date with you. But they are not going on dates with you. The existence of this topic shows you cannot tell the difference between real interest and pretended interest.

Real interest is shown when the young lady initiates contact. If no girls are doing that with you then have some kind of problem, like being too old.

I can tell you what I think but I doubt you’ll pay any attention to it.

Firstly, if you are a western guy the right side of 35 it should be extremely easy to date women in their 20s in Taiwan. That is the actual reality of the actual world in which we are actually existing right now. This thread is irritatingly silly. There is no need to put EXPERIENCE in capital letters, as the only person in this thread without that is most likely yourself.

The reason the girls won’t date you is they don’t like you. The only reason they were talking to you is because you started the conversation and they didn’t want to be rude. Being polite and pretending to be interested allows them to escape safely. If the signs of interest they showed were genuine they would go a date with you. But they are not going on dates with you. The existence of this topic shows you cannot tell the difference between real interest and pretended interest.

Real interest is shown when the young lady initiates contact. If no girls are doing that with you then have some kind of problem, like being too old.[/quote]

And that, boys and girls, should be the end of that.

Maybe he should look into a different demographic? How bout try 30 something Taiwanese ladies? Why get stuck on 20 somethings?

One reason I don’t think anyone mentioned here is maybe you didn’t sell the date as a fun time. One of the things I’m good at is climbing the social ladder and having connections everywhere I go. I know restaurant owners, was a PR for clubs, ect ect. So when I set a date, I sell it. Like, “lets go to my friends belgium cafe, they have the best waffles in Taipei, you HAVE to try it! blah blah blah” And I let my friend know I’m coming and he comes over and basically hype me up and hook me up with free drinks or something like that. And I usually have a 2 location date plan, like if the 1st place goes well, I take her to a second location. Like I know most club and bar people in Taipei, so maybe I set up at the bar 1st where I know everyone, and bring her to a secondary location like a club or another lounge. It can work both ways. If I already know the girl I would meet at the club 1st and get hyped, and get her to a more secluded lounge and bar to more intimate. If I don’t know the girl, the opposite so we have an opportunity to talk and make sure she understands shes with me before going to a club where another guy might try to steal her. You might not have the connections, but the general idea is to paint a image of fun and excitement for the date.

I blow off some friends on set date when we’re suppose to do something simply because of the lack of interest in knowing what we are going to do is not going to be that much fun and I rather sit at home and play a ps4 game or something all the time. So with a stranger, you got to make it sound like a great time. Think about the hassle a girl has to go through for a date, dress up, make up, ect. I stood people off where I could just have wore sweat pants out of bed, so make sure it’s something thats exciting.

And maybe dating girls in their 20s are not the best demographic. I find Taiwanese girls in their 20s to be very immature. I’m not looking for a serious girl right now and my go to girl is 31 and i’m 23. I tend to hang around people older, idk people say I act and look like i’m in my late 20s. And I enjoy my time 100x better. People in their late 20s and early 30s do activities that interests me. And the girl I’m seeing knows I’m not serious about our relationship. We have fun, go on dates, and have extremely good sex (which is one of the reasons I hang out with her). I don’t like girls in their early 20s bc they are horrible in bed.