What are the objective & legitimate reasons to support the Chinese KMT in Taiwan?

What do you mean? Street lights are a reason to support the kmt?

There is nothing.

KMT did lay the groundwork to make Taiwan what it is today. What would happen if say the DPP just had a stranglehold on Taiwan? Would Taiwan be as rich?

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That vivid image does nicely describe what happened in Taiwan from c1945 to c1992. Hint: it was not the DPP who monopolized a grip on state resources and state power.

Guy

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Iā€™m sure we all know that, and @Taiwan_Luthiers made it perfectly clear. Itā€™s a valid question.

Itā€™s a ridiculous question.

The KMT ruled as a one-party state, controlling all aspects of the state apparatus, subordinating the military and the judiciary and so on to the party.

The DPP exists in a multiparty environment in which those other parts of the state apparatus are NOT under single party control.

Itā€™s historically misleadingā€”and I would add intellectually dishonestā€”to compare these situations as they are utterly different. There has been one ā€œstrangleholdā€ only since 1945 and that was designed by and benefitted the KMT.

Guy

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This is a very common, and INSANELY cringey argument many people in Kaohsiung that support the Chinese KMT use in recent years. This is due to Korean Fish doing nearly nothing during his term (my opinion) but he did indeed beautify some streets in his very brief term before being ousted by the people. The main thing people are able to applaud are the street lights in kaohsiung. I am simply regurgitating this lack Lustre example of why an entire political party gets praise. There is a section of that region that truly cares about this. It seems week in my opinion. And yet it is repeated to me, at minimum, every few days. Even now. So, it made the list. Street lights (Kaohsiung). Great.

What else?

CKMT before, when at war and wanting to take over their old territory vs CKMT today that just wants to join the communists are VERY different parties.

I have made t clear in this thread about what ate the good points TODAY. Not 50 years ago. Now. The party ythen and the party now are completely opposite in so far as their stance on nationality. So forget the past. Those genocidal maniacs that created Taiwan are dead and gone. We have freedom now. What of the CKMT now? I mentioned this up thread by the way :wink:

My Lord. Nevertheless, it is a valid question. TL clearly implies that the KMT in fact had a ā€œstrangleholdā€ on Taiwan and simply asks what the case would be if the tables were turned. Objecting willy-nilly just makes me wonder why youā€™re being so defensive about it.

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I see this as a whitewashing of history, or more politely a misinformed view of history.

Itā€™s analogous to the use of idiotic terms like ā€œGreen Terrorā€ in reference to the documented abuses of White Terror.

Itā€™s not the DPPā€™s fault that the KMT is running inept candidates and inept campaigns. The KMT needs to get their act together if they want to regain executive control of Taiwan at a national level.

Guy

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Cool. Back to the actual question. What reasons do we have to support the CKMT Today?

Why are he good for us now? Us meaning our country of taiwan and everyone residing in it. Citizens and residents alike. What reasons?

Street lights in kaohsiung
Huge benefits to government employees

And?

Hereā€™s one!

The KMT have always ruled Taipei City, except when they havenā€™t, and look at how awesome our city is.

Guy

So whatā€™s the objective and legitimate benefit of this?

Residents in the capital continue to grab tax resources and enjoy some nice benefits and to hell with the rest of the country!

Basically thatā€™s the model as I see it.

Guy

Well letā€™s keep this positive train rolling. What else do the CKMT do for taiwan?

The fact there are so few answers is starting to become telling. But I remain unbias. I truly want to know what reasons people support them.

Letā€™s go, CKMT! Where art thou accolades?!?!

Sorry, I havenā€™t bothered to read this entire thread, so sorry if this has already been said. I guess what the OP is trying to do is steelman this, Iā€™ll go along, but I certainly am no KMT supporter.

One of the most beneficial things they did was engage in land reform after kicking out the Japanese. Many farmers got to own their themselves and were no longer tenant farmers.

As of today, I think that they are totally irrelevant. They are just hanging on because of their money and legacy with older people. But I have read that their money is dwindling because they put a lot of people on the payroll and with pensions and etc.

Steelman might be a way to put it :slight_smile:

So youā€™re thought is legacy and paying (a very few) people high pensions etc?

trying to stick to recent history, not the founding fathers of Taiwan. What of todayā€™s CKMT? What are their benfits? Why should we (Taiwan) support this party today?

Perhaps another way to state it, what are they doing now that gives people the desire to vote for, support and dedicate ourselves to their party? Ibdo keep watching hem them and asking myself this question, but I am often left without a good answer. But I really want to understand what they are doing that people love. Not counting brain wash and loyalty schemes. Actual efforts, progress, action and results. What is it?

I feel I should keep repeating, I am NOT a DPP supporter. Just to clarify. This thread isnā€™t about them, in case folks want to do the comparison rant again.

Hereā€™s about the obligations they have, the cushy jobs they doled out and the pensions that they must fund.

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/4976111

So what benefit does this CKMT have for taiwan?

I feel everytime this question is asked, the replies, or lack there of, only support their opposition. Not great to be honest.

I remain optimistic, there must be SOMETHING the CKMT is good at that justifies such a large percentage of our country to support them. Surely, at least a few things that better the country?

Itā€™s hard to better the country if the country ceases to exist.

To me, there are three main things going on here. Thereā€™s (1) the dying or dead Republic of China, (2) the embryo of Taiwan, and (3) that big, bad, mean son-of-a-gun to our left on the map.

ā€“Bob Dylan, ā€œItā€™s Alright, Ma (Iā€™m Only Bleeding)ā€

Remarkably, this place is both busy being born (as Taiwan) and busy dying (as the Republic of China).

Now, as to that big, bad fellow:

ā€“Wikipedia, ā€œAnti-Secession Lawā€

In other words, China, while it grudgingly seems to allow the obsolescent Republic of China to continue to exist, has threatened to intervene with force if Taiwan tries to come into existence as Taiwan.

So it seems to me that the framework of the old Republic of China allows Taiwan to continue in its own unique form of existence. But I fear that, as matters stand now, if Taiwan were to try to exist merely as Taiwan, without reference to that obsolescent framework, then this new country, this currently-yet-unborn Taiwan, might perish soon thereafter.

Thatā€™s pretty solid analysis.

Those of is in Taiwan are living an Interregnum, waiting for the new to arrive . . .

So to return to @Explant 's refrain: what are the ā€œobjective and legitimate reasonsā€ to support the KMT in 2024? As ardent defendents of the ROC shell, what is their vision for the future?

Guy

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