What do you believe is true even though you cannot prove it?

I believe that there is nothing that I believe that is not a matter of faith. The line between faith and gullibility is thin and treacherous.

I believe that line exists and you straddle it with your faith based beliefs, but I walk it like a circus tightrope without a net.

Everything you know is wrong.

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Why is it aliens are always more intelligent then us (in movies / siceince fiction stuff). Perhaps there is a planet inhabited by other beings out there and perhaps they are very, very, stupid. Perhaps they all have brains the size of chicken’s.

Can you prove that I am wrong?

  • I believe that life exists elsewhere besides Earth.
  • I believe that the Riemann Hypothesis is true.

Because in those movies, those aliens have managed to cross interstellar space to visit us. I’d say that makes them pretty damn smart.

[quote=“Tetsuo”]Me.

I’m serious. How can any of us actually prove that we even exist?[/quote]
“I think, therefore I am.”

It would explain natural disasters though. “This program has performed an illegal operation.”

But how do you know you’re even thinking?

[quote=“Tetsuo”]

But how do you know you’re even thinking?[/quote]
Perhaps because you quoted him? Empirically speaking, because he can read his own post. Better yet, because he wrote what you quoted.
Chris’s statement is empirical. Other philosophical standpoints would answer this question much differently. I lean towards believing that my thoughts do prove my existence also but I would not label myself as empiricist because I appreciate a more scientifical approach.

Because in those movies, those aliens have managed to cross interstellar space to visit us. I’d say that makes them pretty damn smart.[/quote]

Good point Chris.

Also, in the case of science fiction that does not involve earth (Star Wars, for example) part of the reason might be that few of us would pay to buy a book or see a movie about stupid aliens with brains the size of a chicken’s. Give us an alien with the brain the size of a chicken (no possessive), on the other hand, and you’ve got a character who might have an interesting story to tell…

But what if those chicken-brained aliens are only 4 millimeters tall apart from their heads?

OK, but several points:

  1. Posting != thinking. See the IP forum for proof of that.
  2. How can he prove he even thought that? How can he prove that it wasn’t me that posted “his” post? How can he prove that I wasn’t just quoting myself, or that he wasn’t just quoting himself in his reply to “me”? How can he prove that any of this even actually happened, and that he didn’t merely imagine it happened, or that this all isn’t just some dream or something? After all, the senses are notoriously fallible, to start with.
  3. How can you know that he wrote what I quoted?

Then there’s the more practical point - how can you actually prove that you’re thinking anyway? That’s essentially another part of my point. If the only basis upon which we can prove our existence is our thoughts, and we can’t actually prove that we’re even thinking, how can we prove that we exist? I mean, we can prove that certain electrical impulses occur in the brain, but can we actually prove that those impulse directly correlate to thought?

You’re all a figment of my imagination. Or my butterfly’s imagination. I forget.

Or your imaginary butterfly’s imagination?

[color=green](How’s this for a bizarre post if taken out of context? Ahh the fun of the Open Forum… :slight_smile: )[/color]

Hmm… :ponder: … Yes, quite. I stand humbly corrected.

Once upon a time, Chuang Tzu dreamed that he was a butterfly, flying about enjoying itself. It did not know that it was Chuang Chou. Suddenly he awoke, and veritably was Chuang Chou again. He did not know whether it was Chuang Chou dreaming that he was a butterfly, or whether it was the butterfly dreaming that it was Chuang Chou. Between Chuang Chou and the butterfly there must be some distinction. This is a case of what is called the transformation of things.

[quote=“Hobbes”]
[/quote]

Ah, Hobbes, no fair explaining - it was a twisted reference, but I assumed you’d all get it anyway :slight_smile:

[quote=“Tetsuo”]

Then there’s the more practical point - how can you actually prove that you’re thinking anyway? That’s essentially another part of my point. If the only basis upon which we can prove our existence is our thoughts, and we can’t actually prove that we’re even thinking, how can we prove that we exist? I mean, we can prove that certain electrical impulses occur in the brain, but can we actually prove that those impulse directly correlate to thought?[/quote]

If your going to follow this train of thought correctly, I believe you’re wrong to say that we can prove that certain electrical impulses occur in the brain. It could be another system but our brain tells us that it is the electrical one we usually think of. However the thinking bit I think is a bit easier. It is not necessary for us to be in control of our own thoughts to be thinking. Thinking is basically having a mental state. I know I have that. Now then you start wandering about things like who controls the mental state you have and the reality you imagine yourself to be in. The old Brain In Vats head-fuck from Phiolosphy of Knowledge 1. For a bit on the Brain In Vats and attempts around it check out Brains in a vat

OK, but several points:

  1. Posting != thinking. See the IP forum for proof of that.
  2. How can he prove he even thought that? How can he prove that it wasn’t me that posted “his” post? How can he prove that I wasn’t just quoting myself, or that he wasn’t just quoting himself in his reply to “me”? How can he prove that any of this even actually happened, and that he didn’t merely imagine it happened, or that this all isn’t just some dream or something? After all, the senses are notoriously fallible, to start with.
  3. How can you know that he wrote what I quoted?

Then there’s the more practical point - how can you actually prove that you’re thinking anyway? That’s essentially another part of my point. If the only basis upon which we can prove our existence is our thoughts, and we can’t actually prove that we’re even thinking, how can we prove that we exist? I mean, we can prove that certain electrical impulses occur in the brain, but can we actually prove that those impulse directly correlate to thought?[/quote]
Anyway, I know Tetsuo exists because I see him pretty much every day at the office! :slight_smile:

I believe that one day they will be able to map a person’s brain (using various scanning techniques and tests) and have the ability to know what your you’re thinking.

I believe I’ll wake up tomorrow. I believe that somewhere in the world at all times at least two people are having sex. I believe no one can prove that dragons don’t exist (or that apples do). I believe in Qi (chi, ki). I believe time doesn’t exist. I believe in the power of positive thought. I believe HTML is an acronym. I believe time does exist (if you so choose to believe it).

I can prove none of these things (except for that acronym one, I proved that already :laughing:).

That’s kind of fun.