What do you think of this case? Pit bull put down

Don’t you mean stand still and stare wistfully at the sunset? :smiley:

Don’t worry. Acceptance is the next phase. :wink:

:thumbsup: Love it.

By the way, didn’t even know there were pitbulls in Taiwan. What about standard bull terriers? They seem to be far smaller than the type we have back home. Are they miniature bull terriers or just mixed with smaller breeds? Does that make them dangerous at all (especially to small children)?

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]I have no problem with the authorities taking away and killing vicious dogs.
And the dog owners should be suitably punished, if they know of the risk and fail to act accordingly.[/quote]
Absolutely. I agree wholeheartedly with both those points. Especially the first though.

[quote=“Stray Dog”] If a pit bull breeds with a weaker dog, would the off-spring be better or worse off for not being a purebred pit bull? That’s the question.[/quote]It’s a good question and I think you are right. You’re dreaming, though. You obviously have a passion for animals and I don’t blame you for your somewhat off-topic idealism. The problem is that new breeds are still created as we speak and popular breeds such as PB will be bred for as long as humans can themselves reproduce. :wink:

Phasing them out is not a foreseeable option, so I think you’d have to look at more realistic ways to keep people safe from these animals, and if possible, avoid killing the animals when it’s not necessary.

There, fixed that for you (based on experience).

:thumbsup: Love it.

By the way, didn’t even know there were pitbulls in Taiwan. What about standard bull terriers? They seem to be far smaller than the type we have back home. Are they miniature bull terriers or just mixed with smaller breeds? Does that make them dangerous at all (especially to small children)?[/quote]
Dog fighting was legal in Taiwan up to around the 1980’s. Taiwan was famous for having the gamest pit bull dogs in Asia and even exported to such places as Thailand. One of my neighbours was very big in that scene until it became illegal. Cock fighting also used to be a huge business in Taiwan. Dog fighting still goes on but not at the level it used to and only by dodgey slimey underground types. When legal it was kind of the same scene as in Japan with legal dog fighting these days, with families and local dignitories attending. Yah sounds incredible doesn’t it but true. Times change, people change, societies progress and things once considered ok are later considered barbaric; in the UK that was in the 19th century, in the USA the early 20th century and in Taiwan around the 1980’s. It shows just how far Taiwan has come in a few short years regarding animal rights issues. I reckon one day soon this Taiwan will be filled with PETA sympathisers or have a PETA Asian HQ here ha!

I really mean it when I say it shocks me at how well they treat animals here COMPARED to just 20 years ago. I wonder how much buddism has to do with that or why the changes took place?

Stray dog and his equivalents have probably had a role too

[quote=“RobinTaiwan”][quote=“Stray Dog”] If a pit bull breeds with a weaker dog, would the off-spring be better or worse off for not being a purebred pit bull? That’s the question.[/quote]It’s a good question and I think you are right. You’re dreaming, though. You obviously have a passion for animals and I don’t blame you for your somewhat off-topic idealism. The problem is that new breeds are still created as we speak and popular breeds such as PB will be bred for as long as humans can themselves reproduce. :wink:

Phasing them out is not a foreseeable option, so I think you’d have to look at more realistic ways to keep people safe from these animals, and if possible, avoid killing the animals when it’s not necessary.[/quote]

I had almost exactly the same opinion as you a long time ago. Time has taught me better. In the UK now, the RSPCA is highlighting the realities of the ‘purebred’ phenomenon, and already the Kennel Club has had to start breeding more responsibly. We will soon see some breeds either changed for the better or phased out because of the stigmas attached to them (dangerous, cruel, deformed, unhealthy, etc.).

That pit bulls are illegal in many countries and the breed most likely to be relinquished to a shelter or euthanized tells me that common sense will prevail, and the breed will eventually die out as others have done: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:E … dog_breeds.

But I don’t blame you for taking the more obvious perspective, and it was a jolly good stab at an intellectual response. :thumbsup:

There, fixed that for you (based on experience).[/quote]

Well they aint perfect :slight_smile:
But this one was afraid of my CAT. he was harmless (unless one day he cracks of course).

We had a purebred cocker spaniel. It’s father had a pedigree a mile long, and so did it’s mother, and it was just beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. It had a shiny, glossy black coat, and a wonderful warm, playful personality. And… it didn’t like being alone. At about 8am. Dad would go off to work, us kids would go off to school, and at 9 or so Mum would leave for work and errands and shopping and stuff, and yon dog would start barking. When we were around, it was fine, but as soon as the house was empty it would bark. It would bark and bark, and howl like a lonesome timber wolf, and it would keep it up until 4pm when the first person got home. Drove the neighbours batty - but what could we do? We couldn’t punish it when we were at work or school… if we came home and gave it a hiding it wouldn’t know what it was for.

Turned out both it’s mother and father had been problem barkers, though the owners hadn’t been quite so fast to put that on the pedigree list…

After training, dog psychologists and stinky collars, as well as visits from the city council and dog abuse inspectors, we got another dog so he had some company. That managed to get him under control, and after he grew another couple of years older he stopped. But hell… ever since I’ve always been a bit wary of hose “pure-bred, distinguished pedigree” kind of dogs - all seem a bit batty, have a screw loose somewhere.

[quote=“ice raven”]We had a purebred cocker spaniel. It’s father had a pedigree a mile long, and so did it’s mother, and it was just beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. It had a shiny, glossy black coat, and a wonderful warm, playful personality. And… it didn’t like being alone. At about 8am. Dad would go off to work, us kids would go off to school, and at 9 or so Mum would leave for work and errands and shopping and stuff, and yon dog would start barking. When we were around, it was fine, but as soon as the house was empty it would bark. It would bark and bark, and howl like a lonesome timber wolf, and it would keep it up until 4pm when the first person got home. Drove the neighbours batty - but what could we do? We couldn’t punish it when we were at work or school… if we came home and gave it a hiding it wouldn’t know what it was for.

Turned out both it’s mother and father had been problem barkers, though the owners hadn’t been quite so fast to put that on the pedigree list…

After training, dog psychologists and stinky collars, as well as visits from the city council and dog abuse inspectors, we got another dog so he had some company. That managed to get him under control, and after he grew another couple of years older he stopped. [color=#FF0040]But hell… ever since I’ve always been a bit wary of hose “pure-bred, distinguished pedigree” kind of dogs - all seem a bit batty, have a screw loose somewhere.[/color][/quote]

Thanks, you are supporting my position that us Yanks had it right all along. Long live us mutts!!!

Cats are the new dogs for apt dwellers and people who are not home most of the time. Two cats is better actually. They dont bark.

Cocker Spaniels are nice dogs I hear. If feeding wet food, my friend used to rubber band the ears of his dog while feeding so it wouldnt mess up its ears. :slight_smile:

Ears would get all messed up by getting in the bowl.

Plus its really stressful for a dog when its barking all day because it doesnt want to be alone.

[quote=“Stray Dog”]

That pit bulls are illegal in many countries [/quote]

I would think this is only making the breed more attractive to some people. The more rare they become, if they do and I doubt it, the more sought after they will be by a select populace.

A brief research tells me that quite a few dog breeds are facing extinction. Mostly older breeds from Europe. But most of the breeds that vanished are very old breeds that phased out a long, long time ago. Some of them were recreated with more or less success, and nearly all the extinct breeds were cross-bred to create the modern breeds of today. Many of the dogs in the list you posted went extinct as far as hundreds of years BC and they are traced as being the ancestors of commonly known modern breeds. That’s hardly relevant. To your credit, however, and as I said, some breeds do face extinction now, but the PB is hundreds of years away from there as we speak, in my opinion. And that’s if it ever happens.

Nowadays, with the technology, the internet and convenient transportation, all you need is a handful of breed-specific enthusiasts to ensure that breeds such as the PB will never be phased out. And God only knows there are thousands of PB’s enthusiasts out there. The PB is a very popular breed and I sustain my opinion that you are dreaming. :wink: You are quite right as far as other breeds are concerned, though. You are also right that some breeds were intentionally phased out but to think this will happen with a breed as famous as the PB is nothing but a pipe dream. No offense intended.

:thumbsup: Love it.

By the way, didn’t even know there were pitbulls in Taiwan. What about standard bull terriers? They seem to be far smaller than the type we have back home. Are they miniature bull terriers or just mixed with smaller breeds? Does that make them dangerous at all (especially to small children)?[/quote]
Dog fighting was legal in Taiwan up to around the 1980’s. Taiwan was famous for having the gamest pit bull dogs in Asia and even exported to such places as Thailand. One of my neighbours was very big in that scene until it became illegal. Cock fighting also used to be a huge business in Taiwan. Dog fighting still goes on but not at the level it used to and only by dodgey slimey underground types. When legal it was kind of the same scene as in Japan with legal dog fighting these days, with families and local dignitories attending. Yah sounds incredible doesn’t it but true. Times change, people change, societies progress and things once considered ok are later considered barbaric; in the UK that was in the 19th century, in the USA the early 20th century and in Taiwan around the 1980’s. It shows just how far Taiwan has come in a few short years regarding animal rights issues. I reckon one day soon this Taiwan will be filled with PETA sympathisers or have a PETA Asian HQ here ha!

I really mean it when I say it shocks me at how well they treat animals here COMPARED to just 20 years ago. I wonder how much buddism has to do with that or why the changes took place?

Stray dog and his equivalents have probably had a role too[/quote]
Thanks for the info. Didn’t know that at all. :astonished:
Explains quite a bit really…

[quote=“ice raven”]We had a purebred cocker spaniel. It’s father had a pedigree a mile long, and so did it’s mother, and it was just beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. It had a shiny, glossy black coat, and a wonderful warm, playful personality. And… it didn’t like being alone. At about 8am. Dad would go off to work, us kids would go off to school, and at 9 or so Mum would leave for work and errands and shopping and stuff, and yon dog would start barking. When we were around, it was fine, but as soon as the house was empty it would bark. It would bark and bark, and howl like a lonesome timber wolf, and it would keep it up until 4pm when the first person got home. Drove the neighbours batty - but what could we do? We couldn’t punish it when we were at work or school… if we came home and gave it a hiding it wouldn’t know what it was for.

Turned out both it’s mother and father had been problem barkers, though the owners hadn’t been quite so fast to put that on the pedigree list…

After training, dog psychologists and stinky collars, as well as visits from the city council and dog abuse inspectors, we got another dog so he had some company. That managed to get him under control, and after he grew another couple of years older he stopped. But hell… ever since I’ve always been a bit wary of hose “pure-bred, distinguished pedigree” kind of dogs - all seem a bit batty, have a screw loose somewhere.[/quote]
We had a pedigree Alsatian when I was growing up, and I loved the dog dearly. Problem was he suffered all his life from cancer and hip dysplasia (sp?). The cancer was removed a few times but eventually he died from it when he was around eight or nine. Promised my self I would never ever have another pedigree dog.

[quote=“RobinTaiwan”][quote=“Stray Dog”]

That pit bulls are illegal in many countries [/quote]

I would think this is only making the breed more attractive to some people. The more rare they become, if they do and I doubt it, the more sought after they will be by a select populace.

A brief research tells me that quite a few dog breeds are facing extinction. Mostly older breeds from Europe. But most of the breeds that vanished are very old breeds that phased out a long, long time ago. Some of them were recreated with more or less success, and nearly all the extinct breeds were cross-bred to create the modern breeds of today. Many of the dogs in the list you posted went extinct as far as hundreds of years BC and they are traced as being the ancestors of commonly known modern breeds. That’s hardly relevant. To your credit, however, and as I said, some breeds do face extinction now, but the PB is hundreds of years away from there as we speak, in my opinion. And that’s if it ever happens.

Nowadays, with the technology, the internet and convenient transportation, all you need is a handful of breed-specific enthusiasts to ensure that breeds such as the PB will never be phased out. And God only knows there are thousands of PB’s enthusiasts out there. The PB is a very popular breed and I sustain my opinion that you are dreaming. :wink: You are quite right as far as other breeds are concerned, though. You are also right that some breeds were intentionally phased out but to think this will happen with a breed as famous as the PB is nothing but a pipe dream. No offense intended.[/quote]

I thought you said that a popular dog breed would never die out and would be around as long as man . . . which is not an argument supported by history. As your post supports, the breeds were phased out in favour of another. So . . . to be honest I’m not really sure what your standpoint is now.

You’re saying that they will never get phased out, or that they will?

You’re a lawyer, aren’t you.

But I do agree that, to the uninformed, it looks very much like the pit bull will always be around, and kudos to you for sticking to that opinion in the light of strong argument to the contrary.

My standpoint is pretty simple as it is, I thought. Some breeds will go extinct, and perhaps the PB will, too. But not for a long, long time yet if it ever does. I know I said that they will be around for as long as humans are around. I have no problems with amending that comment if it generates confusion. It’s just a figure of speech.

The means for breed-specific enthusiasts to keep the breed alive are plentiful and the PB is too popular for this breed to be phased out in a foreseeable future. In the mean time, maybe alternatives should be sought out to protect people from these potentially dangerous dogs, and to avoid killing the dogs if it’s not absolutely necessary.

I totally agree with you, it all comes to the owner and the dog, what they can do together, and i also know that your post didnt have the intention to talk bad about PB, but the few posts after yours came really bad and the focus of the topic was turned into what a bad dog is a PB, but after reading what happened after my post is that i love what everybody is saying, we all realize its a discipline problem, it has to do with some congenital issues and we just need to love them and take care of them !!! hey i know what my PB is capable of doing so i never walk him without a leash… but its ok… i protect him from injuring himself and other dogs… now i have a golden retriever here in Taiwan and he is lovely with people but with big dogs tends to be dominant… i adopted him like that and i am working on improving his behavior !!!
and for all you guys, keep up the good spirit and the love for dogs !!

I have to agree that not all pit bulls are bad. I’ve met some lovely ones…of course also some not so nice ones. But it’s true that it really comes down to the owner. If the owner trains the dog well, then there’s no reason that a pit bull can’t be as nice as a lab (of course it will always be a bit scarier looking to most though).

I worked as a vet tech back home in an emergency care center (so we saw the worst of the worst), and I only remember one vet ever getting bit by a pit bull, and it was still a pup (about 8 months). It was scared more than just being aggressive. Anyway, we worked on a lot of pit bulls that were “accidentally” shot by police, had a new one in at least once a month, so these dogs had a lot of reason to be distrustful and aggressive, but they really never were. They can be territorial for sure, but seldom were they aggressive for no reason. In fact, Chows and Shar pei’s were consistently the most unnecessarily aggressive dogs. These breeds were always muzzled straight away, but pits were usually given a chance to show their true colors before there was any thought to muzzling them.

Anyway, in my opinion, I don’t think a person should ever own a dog that they couldn’t take in a fight. Not that I’m condoning fighting with a dog, of course. But, if your dog goes after someone (or another dog), you need to be able to pull your dog away, you can’t be scared of it. I see so many people who own these big, huge dogs that they can’t handle and when their dog picks a fight with another big dog, they just scream instead of trying to pull the dogs apart. So, the fight continues, one of the dogs gets badly injured, and then that owner wants the other dog put down or something. It’s just terrible. If people weren’t afraid of their own dog biting them, then many of these problems wouldn’t occur. Dogs fight, sometimes they get aggressive, and it’s important that the dog’s owner can handle it. My local shelter at home now only allows people to adopt dogs over 50 pounds if they have had prior big dog experience or if they first attend a series of training courses to get used to handling a big dog. Personally, I think that this is a great idea and I wish more places would do that. Of course, there’s no stopping the pet stores from selling pits and other large dogs to any schmoe who walks through the door…oh well.

From the article, I feel that there was some overreaction and perhaps the vet tech wasn’t as careful around the dog as she should have been. At my office, the ones that got bit were always the new girls who didn’t listen to other people’s advice about which dogs to muzzle. I never got bit by a dog while I was there, now cats…that’s another story.
Anyway, sorry the post is so long.

TLTR: Don’t think it’s the dog’s fault. Owner should have trained better, and tech overreacted…

I agree; it’s not the dogs’ fault at all. I would say the vast majority of people really don’t know what a dog needs to be happy, healthy, and balanced–we as people tend to do the exact opposite of what should be done. That leads to dogs being unruly, dominant, scared, etc., and sometimes with a tendency to bite (BTW, several posters have mentioned how well behaved Labs are, but, surprisingly, they are the breed responsible for most bites in the United States).

The problem with pit bulls is that, although capable of being their natural selves–a loving, friendly, loyal companion–should they not be responsibly kept and do end up aggressive in certain situations, their breeding makes them incredibly hard and unstoppable biters, and it’s this relentless ferocity that leads them to cause the damage that they do, which is far greater than a dog even twice their size.

What’s wrong with labs, springers AND Jack Russells? That’s what I grew up with. Now I only have a lab. And he don’t stink. Well, not hardly. Sometimes.