What does it take to be a Christian?

Arts & Sciences Religion & Spirituality
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I’m curious to get everybody’s opinions on the minimum requirements. I was raised Methodist, and here is their version of the Apostle’s Creed:

[quote]I believe in God the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord:
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen. [/quote]

So from this it seems that in the minimum to be a Christian one must:

  1. Believe in a single deity that created the universe.
  2. Believe this deity had a son, named Jesus, who was conceived by supernatural means.
  3. Believe Jesus suffered for the sins of man, being tortured and executed.
  4. Believe Jesus was resurrected and now lives forever in the same place as the deity.

Is that it? I’ll add a few more, not from the Apostle’s Creed. To be a Christian one must:

  1. Believe human beings have spirits.
  2. Believe that spirits will either be damned to Hell forever or allowed to enter Heaven, also for eternity.
  3. Believe that all who accept Jesus as their Savior will enter Heaven or at least have the opportunity to.
  4. Believe that all who does not accept Jesus will automatically be sent to Hell, or at least cannot ever Heaven.

So what do you people think? Especially to the Christians on Forumosa, which of the above do you feel are necessary and which are not? Or do you have others to add?

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A suspension of disbelief?

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I was always taught that you just need to give your life to Jesus.

One requirement.

If you think you need more you could of course send me a cheque or postal order made out to Cash and I will ensure your redemption. :laughing:

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To me, a Christian (or a Muslim, Hindu, Jew…) is anyone who says he’s a Christian (or a Muslim, Hindu, Jew…).

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That’s a bit broad, IMOH. I have a Vietnamese friend who tells me she’s both Catholic and Buddhist. Judging by her life, she practises neither religion. I don’t think of her as either a Christian or a Buddhist. Rather, I think she likes to think of herself as “multi-cultural”, able to bridge the gap not only socially (Canadian Vietnamese), but also religiously.

I’ve met some who say they are Christian, but then go on to deny (or seriously doubt) the existence of Jesus. If you don’t believe in something as fundamental as Jesus to Christianity, it’s really hard to take someone’s word that they are Christian.

gao_bo_han, I’d add the belief in the Holy Ghost to that list of yours.

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[quote=“sjcma”]

gao_bo_han, I’d add the belief in the Holy Ghost to that list of yours.[/quote]

not to be Christian, but Catholic. 12 years they never explained that one!

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[quote=“gao_bo_han”]
So from this it seems that in the minimum to be a Christian one must:

  1. Believe in a single deity that created the universe. color=red[/color]
  2. Believe this deity had a son, named Jesus, who was conceived by supernatural means.[color=red](God no)[/color]
  3. Believe Jesus suffered for the sins of man, being tortured and executed.color=green[/color]
  4. Believe Jesus was resurrected and now lives forever in the same place as the deity.[color=red](Nonono, nice try though)[/color]

Is that it? I’ll add a few more, not from the Apostle’s Creed. To be a Christian one must:

  1. Believe human beings have spirits.[color=red](you mean a soul? No;[/color][color=green]an energy force that can attract and repel things, yes)[/color]
  2. Believe that spirits will either be damned to Hell forever or allowed to enter Heaven, also for eternity.[color=red](Noop, we make hell right here jest fine, same goes for heaven)[/color]
  3. Believe that all who accept Jesus as their Savior will enter Heaven or at least have the opportunity to.[color=red](Nada qualification to experience heaven on Earth imho)[/color]
  4. Believe that all who does not accept Jesus will automatically be sent to Hell, or at least cannot ever Heaven.[color=red](No, the whole Fear Factor thing doesn’t work on some people. me being one)[/color]

So what do you people think? Especially to the Christians on Forumosa, which of the above do you feel are necessary and which are not? Or do you have others to add?[/quote]

So I guess I’m not a Christian, although GBH, I was raised a Methodist as well. We had great church BBQs!

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[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“sjcma”]

gao_bo_han, I’d add the belief in the Holy Ghost to that list of yours.[/quote]
not to be Christian, but Catholic. 12 years they never explained that one![/quote]
Are you saying only Catholics believe in the Holy Ghost? I’m pretty sure the Holy Ghost, as one part of the Trinity, is a fundamental part of most, if not all, branches of Christianity.

The Holy Ghost plays a prominent role in Acts and is probably more important for Pentecostals than any other major denomination.

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All it takes is faith. Everything else is just window dressing.

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[quote=“sjcma”][quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“sjcma”]

gao_bo_han, I’d add the belief in the Holy Ghost to that list of yours.[/quote]
not to be Christian, but Catholic. 12 years they never explained that one![/quote]
Are you saying only Catholics believe in the Holy Ghost? I’m pretty sure the Holy Ghost, as one part of the Trinity, is a fundamental part of most, if not all, branches of Christianity.

The Holy Ghost plays a prominent role in Acts and is probably more important for Pentecostals than any other major denominations.[/quote]

really? i always thought the trinity was a catholic thing. did they explain to you what it is?

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Gotta have faith faith faith!

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You maybe right Gao, it may need only some minimum requirements as you mention to be considered yourself as believers. But following all those requirements doesn’t mean you are a good Christian ! Following the decalogue should be another way of showing your devotion to the Christian cause.

But so far, I don’t see any difference between a good Christian and a non believer or Atheist. Look at Bush :loco: he believes in god, pray every morning and before every meeting with his fellow, and his is the most hated person on this planet. So be a Christian doesn’t mean be reasonable or a specially good person.

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I agree with Chris.
And I also think that according to the very religion you are judging the people that you say aren’t christians by their actions by, you are not allowed to judge people. So if you are going to believe in the bible enough to say “Judging by her life, she practises neither religion. I don’t think of her as either a Christian or a Buddhist.” then you should believe in the bible well enough to know it isn’t your place to say this…

One of the things that makes me a touch avoid-ant of most Christians is the entire judging whether other people are “good christians” or not…

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SAF, Budhism states that there is no way of telling how far along the Path another person is.

I think it’s a good idea respect people and evaluate their words and actions at the same time.

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[quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“sjcma”][quote=“Tempo Gain”][quote=“sjcma”]

gao_bo_han, I’d add the belief in the Holy Ghost to that list of yours.[/quote]
not to be Christian, but Catholic. 12 years they never explained that one![/quote]
Are you saying only Catholics believe in the Holy Ghost? I’m pretty sure the Holy Ghost, as one part of the Trinity, is a fundamental part of most, if not all, branches of Christianity.

The Holy Ghost plays a prominent role in Acts and is probably more important for Pentecostals than any other major denominations.[/quote]

really? i always thought the trinity was a catholic thing. did they explain to you what it is?[/quote]

The Trinity is hardly ever explained, and when it is, even by priests it leaves more questions than those answered.
This is my take on it, from the Bible, talking to Priests etc…and other study:
Quite simply the answer lies in, “You are created in the image of God.” i.e. A body, a soul and a spirit.
God the Father = The Soul
God the Holy Spirit = The Spirit
God the Son = Jesus Christ
Three in one. Just like you, created in that image.

As to judging people. The Bible is quite clear on that, and Jesus Himself states in several texts, that, “You shall not judge each other.” What other people do or believe in is not for us or you to judge. It’s simply not up to us. A prime example was of the woman caught committing adultery. When they wanted to stone her, Jesus said, “You that are without sin, cast the first stone.”
Or as parents are sometimes wont to say, “When you point a finger at someone else, there are four fingers pointing back.”

But organised religion likes finger pointing, which is why Jesus also said, “Organised religion is an abomination unto God.”
Afterall, being a Christian is about a personal relationship with God and trying to follow the example of Christ. NOT judging others, NOT acting holier than thou, NOT lambasting what others believe and how superior or righteous your beliefs are, and NOT sitting your ass in a pew for an hour once a week.

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MOST religions state this. But I find it odd how (even in this very thread) people who practice religions (Judea Christians at most) use their respective religions as a means to judge others. Even though their respective religions state that they should not.

St. Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

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[quote=“bismarck”]God the Father = The Soul
God the Holy Spirit = The Spirit
God the Son = Jesus Christ
Three in one. Just like you, created in that image.[/quote]

Never heard that analogy, and I find it confusing, since soul and spirit are usually synonyms.

Based on my Roman Catholic upbringing, I’d go for something like this: God the Father is the deity of the Old Testament, the creator, lawgiver and primary recipient of worship. The Holy Spirit is His mystical, faith-giving essence which is bestowed by Him upon us. And Jesus, His Son, is His Divinity in human form. The three are simultaneously different and yet inseparable parts of the whole of His Divinity. Three and yet One.

1 Like
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[quote=“Dragonbones”][quote=“bismarck”]God the Father = The Soul
God the Holy Spirit = The Spirit
God the Son = Jesus Christ
Three in one. Just like you, created in that image.[/quote]

Never heard that analogy, and I find it confusing, since soul and spirit are usually synonyms.

Based on my Roman Catholic upbringing, I’d go for something like this: God the Father is the deity of the Old Testament, the creator, lawgiver and primary recipient of worship. The Holy Spirit is His mystical, faith-giving essence which is bestowed by Him upon us. And Jesus, His Son, is His Divinity in human form. The three are simultaneously different and yet inseparable parts of the whole of His Divinity. Three and yet One.[/quote]

I’ve heard the following:

The Father: the mind of God. The supreme architect, planner and master of the universe.
The Son: the body of God. The incarnation of God on Earth.
The Holy Ghost: the spirit of God. The inspiration, the power, the belief that influences mankind.

Not that I’m a Christian: I don’t even play one on TV…

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Hi, it’s me–your lord and savior. Just a shout out to all my niggaz.

Upwards of 95 % of the people calling themselves Christians–i.e. Orthodox, Catholics, and most Protestants–would accept the Nicene (Niceno-Constantinopolitan) Creed, or at least the contents thereof. This includes the Trinity, the death and resurrection of Christ, and so on. The existence of the soul is left unmentioned but is an important implicit assumption. Various denominations have different membership criteria, but belief (or pretense thereof) in such things is generally required.

An exception would be the Unitarian-Universalists (no Trinitarians they), which is Christian by origin though it has grown to encompass many Jews, pagans, and miscellaneous others. The Anglican / Episcopalians are another denomination which has been known to welcome skeptical perspectives on such things as God, prayer, and the divinity of Christ (cf. John Spong). The Quakers emphasize the individual conscience, and each person’s ability to receive the light of Christ. The United Churches of Christ are another famously liberal denomination.

And of course Christianity is very diverse. The Unification Church believes that Jesus has come back in the person of Rev. Moone. The Mormons have him living on the Planet Kolob, united in plural marriage to Mary and Martha, or something like that. The Haitian Voudoun societies mix Catholic saints with West African deities and folk magic. You get the idea…

Early Christians were monotheistic Jews. Somehow they came to regard Jesus as divine, and they also believed in “the Holy Spirit” which they thought divine as well. So does this make three Gods altogether…? No, that would clash with the Jewish ethos…but pagan philosophy was quite comfortable with the concept of divine emanations and such. So “God is one, but not alone.” The Father eternally begats the Son, and the Spirit either “proceeds”–still eternally–from the Father alone (Orthodox) or from both of them together (Catholics and Protestants).

If somebody digs up the bones of Jesus, or discovers a letter from him (and can prove it) which denies his divinity, will they all close shop and go home? Doubtful, though it would surely have an impact. A number of historical Jesus researchers assume–to protests from other researchers, of course–that Jesus was not so different from the other rabbis, folk magicians, rabble-rousers, and what have you from his day. My favorite interpretation has Jesus basically trance-channeling a figure which he called the “Spirit of God” (effectively a kind of angel) and performing healings and exorcisms while in this mode.

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[quote=“SuchAFob”]I agree with Chris.
And I also think that according to the very religion you are judging the people that you say aren’t christians by their actions by, you are not allowed to judge people. So if you are going to believe in the bible enough to say “Judging by her life, she practises neither religion. I don’t think of her as either a Christian or a Buddhist.” then you should believe in the bible well enough to know it isn’t your place to say this…[/quote]
SAF, perhaps you object to the word “Judging” that I used. Maybe if I had written “In looking at her life…”, it would be more palatable.

I look at this issue more from a point of categorization than judgment. Anyone can call themselves anything, I don’t really care. But it doesn’t mean that I have to accept their proclamations as true. I can claim to be the real Dalai Lama, but I don’t think anyone will take me at my word. My friend claims to be both a Catholic and a Buddhist, but I wouldn’t classify her as either. It doesn’t mean I think she’s a bad person in any way, shape, or form, but rather I think she likes the idea of being a Catholic Buddhist more so than accepting the tenets of either religion.