What does this mean?

Language English Grammar & Usage
1

Not sure where this might go but since it’s in English… Can anyone parse the following bit of technical language into greater clarity.

Material may be finished as forged, rolled, swaged, or drawn (black), as cleaned, as machined, or as ground.

forged, rolled, swaged and drawn are all techniques concerning the processing of tungsten steel. Black is is the result of the steel being heated to remove internal stresses and give greater strength- both annealing and/or black ash are by-products of the process.

Does the following seem a correct reading? - Material may be finished as forged, rolled, swaged, or drawn ( all black steel), and then, further to that, as either cleaned, machined, or ground.

2

That would seem a fair interpretation of the information as written. The problem is more with the original which could have been written much more precisely but such is the case with technical writers who write specifically for their own community.

3

I see all of those “as” as being parallel, so I would not add meaning to say that the second set are necessarily subsequent to the first set unless I had information about the specific technical process being described in this particular case. It’s entirely possible something could be machined without going through the other processes in the first part, at least not in the hands of that particular company.

As a technical translator for many years, I’d say “ask” if you feel you absolutely MUST make that sentence “better”. But I see no problem with it as it stands.

4

Being vaguely familiar with those processes, I’d agree with Ironlady. If you could supply the context around that sentence it might help.

5

The context is somewhat farcical in my view. The text is a set of requirements from a Taiwanese client to a Japanese supplier. The intermediary is my Japanese girlfriend who must translate the English into Japanese. The Japanese supplier has said to her the instructions are not clear. She has asked her Taiwanese colleague to clarify with the Taiwanese client the requirements. Such is the fine quality of this particular Taiwanese colleague that so far no clarification has been forthcoming, or even sought. This being the case my g/f has brought it home to me and asked for my help.

Which brings me to ironlady’s clarification of the text: yes it makes sense, but ironlady do you think it stands as a decent set of instructions for what a client might wish from a supplier? It really does get farcical when it starts to get discussed twice/thrice removed on the internet. Ideally the Japanese supplier and Taiwanese client should be talking to each other on Skype. Or my Japanese girlfriend’s Taiwanese colleague should get his finger out of his butt and get a much clearer brief from the Taiwanese client. And now my g/f is unhappy with me because in my frustration I’m trying to tell her what she should do. Most definitely a farce!

6

Bloody hell … I’m not quite sure I understand the who’s who (or where you come into the equation), but it sounds like a classic case of a Taiwanese factory making things ten times more complicated than they really are.

But … I meant, what sentences precede/follow that particular one? Might shed some light on the subject.

If it’s your responsibility to get this fixed, you would be best off getting a copy of the original Chinese text. I assume it was first written in Chinese and then “translated” by whichever member of staff knows how to use Dr Eye. My gut feeling is that the sentence needs to be completely rewritten. Looking at it again, and assuming the Taiwanese side are buying an assortment of steel products from the Japanese supplier, I think they’re trying to say this:

Whether forged, rolled, swaged, or drawn [rough processing operations, each with different purposes depending on the end product] the material shall be subsequently cleaned, machined and ground [finishing operations - presumably as detailed in drawings which accompany the spec].

But I could be completely wrong.

7

[quote=“finley”]Whether forged, rolled, swaged, or drawn [rough processing operations, each with different purposes depending on the end product] the material shall be subsequently cleaned, machined and ground [finishing operations - presumably as detailed in drawings which accompany the spec].
[/quote]
Once the situation was explained, this is also what I read into the original.

If the original is Chinese, wouldn’t it be better to bypass English entirely? Surely translating Chinese into Japanese would be easier, and less prone to mistakes, than translating it into English first and then into Japanese. Plus competent Chinese/Japanese translators must be more common than Chinese/English in Taiwan.

8

My thoughts exactly. Can’t help wondering if this is case of “company policy” gone awry. I’m always getting data sheets written in utterly incomprehensible English because the Taiwanese company concerned thinks it makes them “international”. I’d be far happier just getting the Chinese version. In this case, a Chinese->Japanese translation must surely be easier and quicker.

9

My thoughts exactly. Can’t help wondering if this is case of “company policy” gone awry. I’m always getting data sheets written in utterly incomprehensible English because the Taiwanese company concerned thinks it makes them “international”. I’d be far happier just getting the Chinese version. In this case, a Chinese->Japanese translation must surely be easier and quicker.[/quote]
You’re fired! :fume: :fume: :fume:
No logic allowed.
A very good friend of mine is a translator and his previous company used to give him translated docs in English to “edit” because they thought it made his job easier if he doesn’t have to translate it??? :smiley:

10

[quote=“finley”]Bloody hell … I’m not quite sure I understand the who’s who (or where you come into the equation), but it sounds like a classic case of a Taiwanese factory making things ten times more complicated than they really are.

But … I meant, what sentences precede/follow that particular one? Might shed some light on the subject.

If it’s your responsibility to get this fixed, you would be best off getting a copy of the original Chinese text. I assume it was first written in Chinese and then “translated” by whichever member of staff knows how to use Dr Eye. My gut feeling is that the sentence needs to be completely rewritten. Looking at it again, and assuming the Taiwanese side are buying an assortment of steel products from the Japanese supplier, I think they’re trying to say this:

Whether forged, rolled, swaged, or drawn [rough processing operations, each with different purposes depending on the end product] the material shall be subsequently cleaned, machined and ground [finishing operations - presumably as detailed in drawings which accompany the spec].

But I could be completely wrong.[/quote]

Yes, I’d say you’re right on both counts. In the first instance, I should have begun by asking my girlfriend what the rest of the text had to say. And secondly, that the meaning I eventually settled on - which is more or less the same as you give above - is the meaning that the Japanese supplier is now happy to go with.

I still say it’s all a bit a farce, given that there has been no direct confirmation from the Taiwanese client that this is exactly what they wish - which is an issue of lack of communication between the various divisions of the trading company my g/f works for.

In regards to the issue of English being used, I gather English is most/very often the language used when the Japanese and Taiwanese communicate directly with each other. English is still the international language. Who knows, that may change, but for now, it seems more Taiwanese ‘speak’ English than they do Japanese. And certainly more Japanese ‘speak’ English than they do Chinese. Hence the clients requirements were given in English as the great go-between.

Anyway, thanks all for exercising some brain cells on my behalf.