What exactely are Western & Chinese values?

[nemesis]

Bang on, ar-grp. Bang on. But you forgot one:

West: Express anger ANYWHERE by screaming, fuming and flailing in a most embarrassing fashion.
East: Don’t express anger or embarrass self in public for fear of losing face.

And I also disagree about the “quality of living”. The standards are different from our own, but they wouldn’t be working so hard if it didn’t matter, would they? It is quite important to have a good quality of living within the culture’s paradigms.

It’s often difficult to define any group. What is Chinese culture? Western culture? Confucianism? Christianity? Depending on who you ask, all can mean very different things. My generalisation above is just that; some Chinese people become hugely incensed in public, just as some westerners handle their anger quietly. But there are trends in each culture, and although some may call it stereotyping (I don’t think it is, because it isn’t used for negative purposes), it is important to know these trends, especially while living within the culture as an expat. The trends are the important thing, not the definition of the group, as you will always find exceptions. People are individuals but knowing something about the culture will give insight into how to handle situations.

As for “western”, it should mean and is generally understood as:
of or pertaining to mainstream culture as seen in the more prosperous western european countries and the prosperous north american nations. We’re not all the same. But, as I said above, there are TRENDS.

[Acintyabedhabedhanan]

[quote]Quote:
Chinese are less independent, more obedient to authority. This allows them to live together in large families where their own interests are subsumed into others, especially their elders.

You could well be describing the very white, western male average Roman citizen under the Republic. [/quote]

You are right, “Western” behaviour does vary considerably across time and circumstance. In general, though, I think whites are more creative, more independent, and (to look at it another way) more rebellious than East Asians. They are more likely to resist dictatorship, whether of the state or the family–or at least leave for greener pastures.

[quote]Quote:
White cultures emphasize fairness and equality.

Are you an American? Even if you are not have you read any newspapers in the past year? All we have read over the past year is how the wealthy and elite live by a completely different set of rules. And are monstrously rewarded for it. [/quote]

Greek/Albanian, but I grew up in Chicago and Toronto.

I should have specified that by “equality” I meant equality before the law, not equality of wealth or power or any other “outcome”. Of course many lapses on our part can be identified, but at least we hold these principles as ideals. Meanwhile the Chinese seem not even to recognize brown-nosing, cronyism and corruption as bad.

[quote]Quote:
A Chinese who decided to emphasize fairness and equality wouldn’t get far, or have as many children who would pass on those genes

The average married couple in Taiwan is having one at most two children now. Are we to conclude that fairness and equality will flow as a result? No, this conclusion is as nonsensical as yours. [/quote]

I shouldn’t have said “many,” because that implies K-selection. I should have said they wouldn’t have as many “resources for their children,” either to devote to having more of them, or lavishing a few good ones with all the best buxibans and Poke-men.

[quote]Quote:
Whites–and Japanese, for that matter–are more likely to aspire to join an existing company, often preferring a large one.)

This is true of the post-war Japanese and was the result of massive propaganda campaigns by the Japanese government. Similarly, now they are trying to encourage a more entrepreneurial spirit. Separately, when was it last true that “whites” prefer to work for large companies? [/quote]

Okay, mea culpa. This would be a short-term trend in any case.

I may also address you “hormone” theory. Oh and I may also tackle your Asiatic nomad ideas. Strange how you use the factors of ice age living to explain the contemporary herding behavior of Asians, while others use it to explain the superior intelligence of whites. I guess we became smarter having to adapt to extreme behavior but the Asian just became more, well, Asian, I guess.

The hormone idea is from J. Philippe Rushton. As for intelligence, whites and Asians score fairly close on IQ tests (100 vs. 104), but I suspect this disguises important differences in how we think.

God, why am I even wasting my time.

I sometimes ask myself the same question.

[ar-grp]

Let’s look at the objective facts:

In Germany, there is a law that requires all companies to give SIX months full pay maternity leave. The social basis of this law is to prevent the stress of the work place from affecting the unborn child. This seems to me one example of a very humane and civilised law. And it reflects the concern that society has for their unborn children and improving family life. California just passed a sweeping legislation giving 1/2 paid leave for workers to care for sick relatives or spend quality time with their kids. Do you not call this humane quality of living law? And there are many many more laws like this. Just go on the internet.

I challenge anyone to find a law in Taiwan and China that even come close to the above. I tell you in Taiwan, the maternity leave is a joke.

Let me tell you of a real live example.

I know a lady in Germany. She is pregnant and took time off under their law, even though she was busy as a lawyer. She ate right and took care of herself in preparation for her delivery.

I also know a nice lady working in taipei. Also pregnant and also a lawyer working in a law firm that does not have a decent maternity leave policy. Everyday she is subject to the stress of working as a lawyer, arguing on the phone for her client, and arguing in court as well. I don’t know if all that stress she is putting on her unborn child is good for that child. I am not a doctor, but I can safely say that it will probably have a negative effect. She is 8 months pregnant.

Now I am sure these examples are not isolated ones and that there are many many similar types of cases. Therefore there is factual basis for the argument that in the “west”, quality of life is important.

[Mucha_Man]

In essence what you’re doing is bad-mouthing the Chinese because the west (in some places) happens to be a few decades (if that) ahead of the east. From a historical point of view your argument is a non-starter. And need I remind anyone that relative from where they started, the Taiwanese have made far greater strides toward a civil and livable society than the west. Anyone want to compare health care for instance?

[twinkie]

In general, though, I think whites are more creative, more independent, …

ah…i see. it’s not really about western or eastern values. it’s about “whites” being bettern than anyone else. what about those east asian’s born and raised in the states?

I should have specified that by “equality” I meant equality before the law, not equality of wealth or power or any other “outcome”. Of course many lapses on our part can be identified, but at least we hold these principles as ideals.

so even though a lot of the “western” countries had slaves, it doesn’t matter. as long as it’s written somewhere that “all men are created equal”, the “outcome” or a better word for it, reality, doesn’t matter. it just sounds like hypocrisy.

Meanwhile the Chinese seem not even to recognize brown-nosing, cronyism and corruption as bad.

wait…who have you been talking to? do the chinese people you know tell you corruption is good!!! have you been watching news at all?

As for intelligence, whites and Asians score fairly close on IQ tests (100 vs. 104), but I suspect this disguises important differences in how we think.