What happened to the GOP?

He also seems to place beliefs over medical science and then invoke his medical credentials.

Hate is your word not mine.
People are motivated by incentives just like all of us. You can also hate the motivations without hating the person.

People are human beings motivated by incentives.

That is the subject of this thread.

Or pretend they are united under one hate Trump banner working in lock-step and have more power than they do. The world is much more chaotic than that with many different varying motivations. It’s easy to play the victim game rather than face the reality of incompetence.

Sorry what were you saying about Rand Paul, Ukraine and me living in a bubble? Trying to connect what that has to do with the Veterans bill. :wink:

Why Republicans changed their votes and when they changed them is absolutely relevant.

You might want to argue something else but it doesn’t help explain any of the above. So pointless.

Yes, I care about the issue itself. You care about the framing and politics of it to the exclusion of the actual issue, which is why you refuse to address it.

Do tell me what I care about please. Or are you having an imaginary argument?

I care about funding for veterans being stalled with no rational. Extra spending? Well where is it? $400Bn? Burden of proof is on you. A hypothetical is not enough reason to torpedo a bill which GOP senators realized but you have a hard time coming to terms with. A misguided commitment to partisanship I assume.

You’ve been arguing about June versus later versions of the bill all by yourself for the entire day, so if you don’t care about it you’re doing it wrong.

I told you what I care about, what veterans care about and ultimately why Republicans had to change their votes. Their position was untenable just as yours is. The only difference is they figured it out. You haven’t.

Right. We both want the funding for the veterans, and you don’t care about the budget issues the Dems introduced and on that subject you care the politics and optics, and I care about the actual substance.

In fact, I do care.

The issue they introduced was making funding mandatory so it couldn’t be cut. We should protect funding for veterans. This is exactly the type of spending that shouldn’t be discretionary.

A point you ignored or dismissed since you took Toomey’s criticism at face value with no evidence to back it up.

You’ve yet again conveniently misrepresented my view despite me making it explicit above. Congrats for consistency.

Prove me wrong. I’ve offered ample opportunity.

Yet again? If you can’t or won’t read or understand a thread you are dominating, I don’t see why you’d start now.

Do you have anything? Where’s this hypothetical spending spree? Still nothing? Ok so then the conclusion Republicans came to is that is not enough to torpedo a bill to fund veterans healthcare. :pray:

You have no grasp on this topic and projecting what you think I think isn’t any more helpful after all you think the deep state is some conspiracy theory.

Glen Greenwald notes this used to be meat and potatoes for Liberals. Take Trump out of it completely and read an article from 2010 by Greenwald discussing the deep state, that was before Trump was on the scene.

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1554978986198974465

https://www.salon.com/2010/07/19/secrecy_6/

And what does this have to with the corruption of values in the GOP, or the veterans bill we were just discussing?

You have a myriad of other threads to complain about the Deep State MSM Council on Foreign Relations Black Rock Soros Dominion Cabbal.

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You brought it up, Seemed like an ad hominem attack as it was unrelated to anything we were discussing.

But you were just illuminating your ignorance on a topic nearly every President has warned about from Kennedy who wanted to scatter the CIA to the winds to Eisenhower who warned about the military industrial complex to the voices who warned about the over reach of the Patriot Act post 911especially liberal journalists.

People who concern themselves with such things, at a time when the intelligence apparatus has never been more powerful and never more filled with tools are in your words “conspiracy theorists”

Maybe next time don’t take peoples views to which you don’t understand and misrepresent them in attempt to discredit the person you are having a discussion with because you hope to stain their credibility in one debate with a topic on another issue.

I understand them all right. I’ve heard them interjected into every single topic possible. I know enough to say that shapes your world view and why you continually give the GOP (likely because they are the party of Trump) a pass.

Regarding the Veterans’ bill, they were clearly in the wrong, and I find it somewhat entertaining how difficult it is for both you and Mithrandir to acknowledge that. Speaks volumes to loyalty to one’s side, cause, belief, etc. Of all battles, this ain’t the one to die on.

He has done everything he possibly could do to not talk about the issue some in the GOP had with the veterans bill. Off topic ad hominems are just part of the standard package.

:grinning: You are far from close to understanding my political view @Malasang88 , I would know it is mine after all.

They have somehow convinced you the intelligence outfits and the immense power they wield as well as the overreach they have been abusing is some conspiracy theory. That’s actually a neat trick.

It’s not helpful to think of things in terms of right and wrong, I already said Rand Paul voted “nay” and don’t hold it against him, it passed anyway but I don’t jump to the conclusion as you do that anyone who opposed the bill must hate veterans. Politics is complicated, I am pleased to see veterans will get benefits.

I’ve told you repeatedly, I see people on both sides as humans, I assume they make decisions based on reasoning they are comfortable with, not because they are evil.

Nope, your objective here was to try and portray Republicans as monsters, the truth is they are just people for the most part, they have different beliefs to you, that is all. I accept that, it seems you are driven to “prove” they are indeed monsters.

The criticism was and always has been against those that changed their vote and lied about the justification. I can appreciate consistency, but do not appreciate inconsistency and using one bill as ransom for another agenda.

So I don’t understand your beliefs, but you somehow have a deep understanding of mine and my objectives?

You often make this mistake of accusing others of exactly what you are doing yourself.

Politicians are motivated by incentives. When those incentives become warped so do their politics. That doesn’t make them monsters, that makes them human.

Care to discuss the GOPs continual shift to the extreme Right of politics over the past decade? Or you disagree and they have not moved further Right?

I don’t jump to conclusions, maybe I would need to dig into it more to get the facts, my first stop isn’t “they must be lying or monsters”. For all I know Toomey didn’t have an amendment first time round and second time around he convinced some his amendment should be heard.

I didn’t say that, there you go making stuff up again.

Could say the same of you.

You’ve said that before, I am less inclined to be a mind reader and declare I know their motives, that is what you are doing.

Complicated, because you see things in terms of left vs right, even when you switch on CNN today and they describe the Trump backed candidates vs the “establishment” candidates, their words not mine, I can find clips from yesterday for you if you like.

So I ask you, what do they mean by “establishment” candidates? What are they describing?