What Happened to These People?

Legal Human Rights
1

I sent an email to the address at the bottom. I have not gotten any reply. Does anyone have any information?

CATHOLIC HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATES THREATENED TO BE FORCIBLY DEPORTED BY TAIWANESE GOVERNMENT
Catholic Migrants Advocates in Taiwan

CATHOLIC HUMAN RIGHTS ADVOCATES
THREATENED TO BE FORCIBLY DEPORTED BY TAIWANESE GOVERNMENT

Yesterday morning, August 24, 2001, approximately around 9:00am, a group of foreign and local Catholic priests and sisters together with both migrant and local workers gathered outside the World Trade Center in Taipei.

The purpose of the migrant workers’ gathering was to peacefully express their disagreement with the Council of Labor Affairs and the Economic Development Advisory Conference’s proposal of reducing foreign workers’ basic minimum wages. This deduction eventually will result in cheaper labor and more unemployment in Taiwan.

Fr. Bruno Ciceri, the spokesman of the gathering, read the Joint Statement of the Catholic Human Rights Advocates in Taiwan in front of the media and local union representatives. Later, unexpectedly, he and other Catholic priests and sisters were given a notification by a Foreign Affairs Department police officer from Taipei Municipal Police Bureau. The Notification reads as follows:

"YOUR BEHAVIOR HAS VIOLATED ARTICLE 27, IMMIGRATION LAW OF R.O.C.

IMMIGRATION LAW

  1. ARTICLE 27: ALIENS WHO ARE VISITING or RESIDING IN THE STATE MAY NOT ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES or EMPLOYMENT THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE PURPOSES OF THEIR VISITS or RESIDENCE.

  2. ARTICLE 34: ALIENS MAY BE FORCIBLY DEPORTED IF THEY HAVE VIOLATED ARTICLE 27."

In the afternoon of August 24, 2001, Police Officers were sent to investigate - from North to South - the Centers and the Offices of the foreign and local Catholic missionaries. These centers and offices are well known to Taiwan government and overseas NGOs as organizations that have offered tremendous services and assistance to both foreign and local workers.

The government’s action reminds us of the White Terrors Era of the KMT government. It is a clear violation against freedoms of speech and expression. It must not be existent in a democratic country like Taiwan! Moreover, it must not be happening under the reign of the DPP new Government!

We thought that the time of harassment and control on the part of the Government, which was personally experienced by the President Chen Shui-Bian and Minister Chen Chu, the Chairwoman of CLA, was already over.

We thought that we could have openly dissented with the Government on certain issues without being retaliated because we have with us a President who always promotes human rights.

Unfortunately, with what happened today, we feel that the shadow of the past repression is creeping back. We all know and are still fresh in our memory the story of Fr. Neil Magil. He was forcibly deported because he tried his best to offer his services to Taiwanese workers. We do not want to see the second Fr. Neil Magil’s incident be re-occurred in Taiwan.

Nevertheless, were we forcibly deported, we would feel honored and privileged to share the same destiny of Fr. Neil Magil. We shall rejoice in our hearts, for such a deportation will be a sign that we were faithful to our Christian faith and missionary vocations, and that we mean to take the side of the poor and the neglected.

The day when we are to be FORCIBLY DEPORTED might appear to be a victory for the DPP Government, however, it would also be the day of mourning for the Democracy in Taiwan.

Signed by:

Sr. Wei Wei, Rerum Novarum Center
Fr. Bruno Ciceri, Stella Maris International Service Center
Sr. Ascension Lim, Rerum Novarum Center
Fr. Edwin Corros, Migrant Workers Concerns’ Desk
Fr. Peter Nguyen Van Hung, Hope Workers’ Center
Fr. James Sandy, Hsin Chu Migrants

2

It takes a bit of time to get a reply from MOFA. Usually a week - but if the length of your letter is longer then it may take longer to get a reply. For a fast reply you should use chinese

3

Other things being equal, lower wages increases the demand from employers to hire labour and reduces the supply of labour willing to work at that wage.

Its hard to see how it would result in higher unemployment.

I think these guys need to rethink their whole approach. No one will take them seriously.

4

Makes sense to me. It specifically targets foreign laborers. With lower pay for foreign workers, fewer will want to work in Taiwan and Taiwanese companies will be forced to hire locals, thus reducing unemployment.
And locals won’t work for salaries as low as those offered to foreign workers, so companies will have to increase salaries as a result.

The assertion that the new policy “will result in cheaper labor and more unemployment in Taiwan” is plainly wrong. It might result in higher unemployment in Thailand and the Philippines, but why should the Taiwan government give a monkey’s about that?

5

Where does Richard Hartzell stand on this issue? Was he there? Is he trying to help these people now?

6

The way I see it, foreigners getting threatened with deportation or even perhaps actually deported because they took a public stand on what many would see as a human rights issue is a bad thing. It remains a bad thing even if they’re not good spellers, their sense of economics is different from that of some other people, or “they should have known better.”

7

Spelling aside Cranky, the Taiwan government isn’t a charity. These folks are campaining for the rights of imported laborers, not Taiwan’s workforce.

8

If they work in Taiwan, then they are part of Taiwan’s workforce.

9

I fail to see your point. The Taiwan government, which likes to tout itself as putting human rights first, doesn’t have to be a “charity” to permit people legally in the country to exercise freedom of speech.

If the government proposed a law that would make resident foreigners pay 95 percent of their income in tax, do you think the government would be justified in deporting foreigners who spoke to the media against this? After all, the government isn’t a charity. :unamused:

10

Yeah, sure, if it’s “just” foreign workers, it doesn’t matter and you can laugh at their poor spelling instead of getting up on your high horse the way you would if it pertained to white professionals. No wonder Hartzell was trying to disassociate his cause from that of the “worker” segment a while back. These people obviously have nothing to do with the San Francisco Peace Treaty and therefore cannot help his cause like the woman in California can.

11

Lowering salaries paid to foreign workers will not reduce the flow of foreign labor into Taiwan (unless they are lowered to nearly nothing). People are coming here not because the salaries are great, but because there is little or no work af any kind available in their home countries. Even if salaries are reduced to the point that they are not attractive to workers from the Philippines, there is still an abundant supply of people ready to come from Cambodia, Laos, Mongolia, and other countries. The quality of foreign labor might diminish, but the quantity will not.

The effect of reduced salaries will be to make it more attractive for Taiwanese companies to import foreign labor. I think this is the intent of the new law. It is meant to help Taiwanese companies reduce costs in order to stay competitive. As foreign labor becomes cheaper, more Taiwanese workers will lose their jobs to foreign laborers. The immediate effect will, in fact, be an increase in unemployment in Taiwan.

The medium term effect COULD be to keep more companies running in Taiwan, thereby holding unemployment down. But, any company that already needs more foreign workers at lower prices to justify manufacturing in Taiwan is likely to shut down and move to China in the future anyway.

The protesters assertion that cheaper foreign labor will lead to an increase in unemployment in Taiwan is correct.

12

[quote=“archinasia”]
The effect of reduced salaries will be to make it more attractive for Taiwanese companies to import foreign labor … As foreign labor becomes cheaper, more Taiwanese workers will lose their jobs to foreign laborers … The protesters assertion that cheaper foreign labor will lead to an increase in unemployment in Taiwan is correct.[/quote]

Utter nonsense! There are strict controls on the number of foreign laborers permitted to work in Taiwan and that fact alone completely undermines your argument.

13

[quote=“monkey”][quote=“archinasia”]
The effect of reduced salaries will be to make it more attractive for Taiwanese companies to import foreign labor … As foreign labor becomes cheaper, more Taiwanese workers will lose their jobs to foreign laborers … The protesters assertion that cheaper foreign labor will lead to an increase in unemployment in Taiwan is correct.[/quote]

Utter nonsense! There are strict controls on the number of foreign laborers permitted to work in Taiwan and that fact alone completely undermines your argument.[/quote]

ummmm… I remember hearing something about many industries having their foreign labor quota raised. The CLA has many many changes that come into play this year.

14

[quote=“monkey”]
Utter nonsense! There are strict controls on the number of foreign laborers permitted to work in Taiwan and that fact alone completely undermines your argument.[/quote]

Sorry monkey but I know alot of Indonesdian girls supposedly working here as babysitters or “caregivers”. Virtually everyone of them is actually working in some kind of factory. No choice. They work or they get fired and deported back to Indonesia. Also, I have one friend who is working in Shih-Lin. She hasn’t been allowed a day off in almost 50 days! Another is allowed 4 hours off per week. The 4 hours are deducted from her pay.

I suggest you go down around the Taipei Train Station Saturday or Sunday and talk to some of the people there. You’ll be enlightened as to the utter LACK of controls.
:x :x :x

15

[quote=“blueface666”][quote=“monkey”]
Utter nonsense! There are strict controls on the number of foreign laborers permitted to work in Taiwan and that fact alone completely undermines your argument.[/quote]

Sorry monkey but I know alot of Indonesdian girls supposedly working here as babysitters or “caregivers”. Virtually everyone of them is actually working in some kind of factory. No choice. They work or they get fired and deported back to Indonesia. Also, I have one friend who is working in Shih-Lin. She hasn’t been allowed a day off in almost 50 days! Another is allowed 4 hours off per week. The 4 hours are deducted from her pay.

I suggest you go down around the Taipei Train Station Saturday or Sunday and talk to some of the people there. You’ll be enlightened as to the utter LACK of controls.

:x :x :x[/quote]

Taiwan doesn’t exactly have a good track record for human rights.
Tight regulations in Taiwan are a joke, who actually enforces these rules - NO ONE, with the possible exception of Taipei city. Everyone is always looking to bend the rules and foreigners in Taiwan can get away with it too as long as they don’t put themselves on public display in any major way, drawing attention to themselves etc.

I know for a fact that the above quote would be true and I am sure that it is just the tip of the iceberg.

16

Sorry monkey,

The content of my original post is sound, based on general economic principles and the realities of the Taiwan market. I stand by it. By the way, if you’re going to throw around condescending remarks like “Utter nonsense!”, it would be wise to at least make sure your own position is the right one first.

It is still quite easy for large manufacturing operations to get foreign workers. The decision to use them or not is nearly always based on cost, not availability.

17

First, lest anyone accuse me of being a monster, I don’t agree with the way the protesters were dealt with by the officials. Nor do I want to see foreign workers getting pay cuts. What I object to is the logic they used (that cutting foreigners’ pay would raise unemployment among Taiwanese).

Now, wheeling out sob stories like the maids working in the factory and the geezer who didn’t get a day off in months is all well and good. These employers are operating outside the law anyway. If they’ll stoop to those levels, do you think they’d obey a minimum wage law anyway? I doubt it. There will always be criminals who employ people.

I’m talking about the vast majority of imported workers who are employed legally by companies which respect the Labor Standrds Law.

Now, if anyone can soundly reason how reducing the minmum pay for foreign workers would increase unemployment among the Taiwanese, I’ll eat my hat, give you my karma stash and adopt Anton Xie’s old pansy boy as my avatar.

18

“Respect the law”??? BWAHAHA! I just spit tea all over my keyboard! Earth to Monkey! We’re talking about TAIWAN and TAIWANESE EMPLOYERS. What are you talking about? :unamused:

19

monkey,

You should have heeded my friendly advice. It was meant to prevent your making yourself look like an obnoxious fool, but apparently you don’t care about that.

The logic is as follows:

  1. Cost for an employer to hire foreign workers goes down.

  2. Employers hire MORE foreign workers and FEWER Taiwanese workers. (The pool of available foreign workers does not diminish.)

  3. Taiwan’s unemployment rate goes up.

Put some ketchup on your hat and get started!

20

But there are government controls on the numbers on foreign workers. The controls are linked to the country of origin of the workers. There are also controls on the numbers of foreign workers that any individual company in Taiwan can hire. These controls are based on the total size of the company’s workforce and other conditions (for example, if the company has fulfilled its quota of hiring Aborigines.)