This whole Gitmo talk has been stupidly waylaid. Brilliant, the yanks are achieving stage one of their conversion of the Middle East by exporting obesity.
But seriously, why applaud the fact prisoners have on average gained weight? It suggests to me crap food and an inability to exercise. In any case, discussions of the ample amenities and the “Gitmo diet” are irrelevant. The only detail the rest of the world sees is the essentially illegal detention of questionably guilty parties in an isolated prison and the lack of standard rights. In other words, the hypocrisy of the western civilising mission.
Why is it so hard to realise that this, as is oft touted, is a propaganda victory to the very interests the US is attempting to defeat?
Those new age clowns, or whatever stupid euphamistic title stubborn red necks with degrees have for themselves today, should try to check this site with an open mind (one can live in hope): http://www.fairgofordavid.org/
Oh, really? Conservatism can’t be taken to radical extremes like any other political philosophy as if it has some sort of built-in ideological governer?
That self-serving illusion would come from the same well as this one:
“[color=blue]. . . You can’t negotiate with terrorists. . .[/color] .”
(see “GITMO COCKTAIL, By RALPH PETERS” previous)
. . . After weeks of delicate negotiation involving a former Iraqi minister and senior tribal leaders, a small group of insurgent commanders apparently came face to face with four American officials seeking to establish a dialogue with the men they regard as their enemies. . . .
[color=blue]On the rebel side were representatives of insurgent groups including Ansar al-Sunna, which has carried out numerous suicide bombings and killed 22 people in the dining hall of an American base at Mosul last Christmas.[/color]"
You have to balance the value of a propaganda victory against letting people with the will to do things like oh, say, flying airplanes into massive buildings crammed with people run around.
Sadly, the betrayal of the enlightenment is more than a propaganda victory.
Yet again a guerrilla ragtag army highlights the weakness of the west. Faced with chaos the yanks reveal what barbarians they really are.
Bummer. I really am disappointed. I got no time for anybody that wants to turn their back on the advance of reason. And in this instance I am justitifiably more critical of the yanks. They knew better, clear and simple (you can guess by that what I think of returning to the donkey age - always have to present a balanced view, even when the arguments are obvious . . . ho hum).
Yeah, HG, yeah. We lost this one right out of the gate, almost.
The scary part was realizing how fragile democracy really is in America, evidence provided at our last presidential election. The way we Americans were (something more than merely) willing to encode a denial of civil rights in our constitution for certain Americans was shocking. Sad and shocking.
Oh well. Here’s hoping for a revival of truly exceptional Americans sometime in my lifetime.
Huang Guang Chen -
Please see my PM to you. It eloquently details my most appropriate responce to your post.
flike -
The American system is based on a very solid foundation.
It has survived much and wiill continue, regardless of the posturings of people such as yourself.
It is humerous to watch your self-imposed vanities.
You seek to be a “Victim” with no substantiation.
Quite humerous. Please continue the entertainment.
All the best and Happy Independence Day!
betrayal? nah, just a temporary fling with the devil. war has never been enlightened. now we’re fighting people who operate outside of the traditional concept of nations. call them ragtag if you will but they have demonstrated a frightening competence. ignoring them in an enlightened fashion didn’t work.
it won’t go on forever. decidedly unenlightened, and taken much too far but in 2001 i wouldn’t have bet we would have gone until now without another major attack.
During the Cold War, numerous Soviet agents and infiltrators were held without trial for lengthy periods of time by many nations including Germany, France, UK, Italy, US, even Canada. What is so different about what’s going on in Gitmo? Why is this suddenly the human rights crime of the century? Also, they have been given trials in front of military tribunals which is in full accordance with the Geneva Convention, which I personally do not believe that they are entitled to. The Geneva Convention offers NO protection to those caught fighting out of uniform behind enemy lines or sabateurs. What would you call terrorists if not saboteurs on a grand scale? Otherwise, please show me where in the Geneva Convention, these rights are offered to terrorists and spies and men fighting out of uniform?
I didn’t realize those caught as Taliban fighters in Afghanistan were fighting behind enemy lines. They weren’t exactly ununiformed saboteurs parachuting into Pakistan to destroy bridges to disrupt troop movement.
Does that mean all those armies in Africa that don’t have/can’t afford proper uniforms e.g. the children’s armies also not protected by the GC because they don’t wear “proper uniforms”?
Fair point but then those who were against the war in Iraq and argued for a STRICT interpretation of the law can hardly say now that there are extenuating circumstances under the Geneva Convention that must be considered in the fighting in Afghanistan right? Anyway, when the Taliban put down their weapons and stop fighting then that war will be over but until it is, then according to the Geneva Convention, we have every right to detain these people.
As to those other detainees at Guantanamo, how would you characterize them as being different from those detained during the Cold War for spying, espionage etc.? And why is this suddenly a gulag but those detained before were not? Surely as a lawyer, you can differentiate between the legal and ethical questions involved here?
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