It could have been…
Sounds familiar. Amazing how some today will not learn from the mistakes of those who held the same beliefs previously.
Ja ja! Das Eiffelturm. Das ist gut, sehr gut. Hat Rascal es seht auch?
[quote=“tigerman”]It could have been…
Sounds familiar. Amazing how some today will not learn from the mistakes of those who held the same beliefs previously.[/quote]
and yet there is some validity in those beliefs. The founders set up this government as a government of checks and balances, of states against the federal, of people/citizens power vs. government power. and all this requires the vigilance of citizens themselves. Is that not also patriotism?
Its not their patriotism that I questioned… 
Its not their patriotism that I questioned… [/quote]
ahem… validity of their beliefs… 
(never used this emoticon)
No JB:
I think it is more a question of judgment. Using any standard try to make logical sense of the Leftist position on Iraq.
-
Iraqi civilians killed. Well compared with the millions under Saddam, 5,000 to 10,000 (mostly not nice guys) seems well a nonreason.
-
Sanctity of the UN. Whoops except when France and Germany are in agreement as in Kosovo and Bosnia or Cote d’Ivoire then it’s full steam ahead.
-
It’s all about oil. That’s why we have high oil prices now and the Unilocal gas pipeline still has not been constructed across Afghanistan.
-
There were no wmds. Whoops. Every intelligence agency believed that Saddam had them.
-
Iraq was a sovereign nation. Whoops what about Yugoslavia?
-
Dangerous precedent of pre-emptive policies. Russia and China always had them and France and Germany were quick to sign on. So that leaves who exactly?
So I think we will go back to poor judgment and a total lack of rational, logical commonsense.
So we start off with a picture of a German Eiffel Tower and I assume a reference to WWII, and yet again it get thread-jacked about Iraq, as if we’ve never heard it before. :snore:
And people wonder at my comments the other week about dominance within the IP forum.
Come on TM, bite hard. 
Fresh Master Smith:
One-word: NON-SEQUITUR
Yeah, what’s the viewable-to-moderator only “split icon” for otherwise?
[quote=“Traveller”]And people wonder at my comments the other week about dominance within the IP forum.
Come on TM, bite hard. [/quote]
No, you bite… 
Look, what would you folks have me do? The OP posted a pic of a famous Paris landmark altered to look what it might look like had the Nazis been successful… which they would have been had the Allies listened to the counsel of those who opposed using force to oppose Hitler and the Nazis.
I posted an excerpt from a well-regarded liberal policy magazine from 1939 in which the anti-use of force crowd opined that force ought not be used. I commented that it is strange that some people will not learn the lessons of the past.
JB commented that such diversity of opinion and the voicing of the same is patriotic. I agreed.
JB replied with some nonsense about belief and a rainbow emoticon.
FS responded that the issue is judgment when looking at present day problems that have similarities with past events.
Seems a logical and natural progression, IMO.
TM, if people really wish to do so then it is possible to link almost anything to anything, particualrly if it is driven in that direction in the first place.
The OP posted a pic only… no commentary.
OP hasn’t chimed in and complained that the thread is going off-topic, and indeed the only indication of the topic is the title, which simply reads, “What If…”
In what direction do you and Moaman believe this topic (whatever this topic is) should be moving?
Nothing new and guess who will later bitch about all the (perceived) Anti-American sentiments …
There’s way too much anti-Americanism on this forum. Happy to oblige Rascal.
Genocide in Darfur, Sudan, June 2004:
. . . There will be speeches, commissions of inquiry and sundry retrospectives, just as there were after Cambodia and Rwanda. Never again, we will be told.
It is already too late to prevent death on a scale that taxes the imagination. Sudan’s murderous government and its allies in the death squads known as the Janjaweed have killed an estimated 30,000 people in Darfur since a rebellion broke out there a bit over a year ago. The crackdown has chased more than 1 million people from their homes and villages. Refugees crowd into camps that the Janjaweed encircle, as food supplies dwindle and their children die for lack of clean water and medicines. The rainy season, now beginning, will make it hard to deliver relief supplies, and starvation seems probable. On Thursday, Andrew Natsios, administrator of the U.S. Agency for International Development, declared that in an optimistic scenario – meaning one in which significant relief is delivered – some 300,000 people might perish. That is the equivalent of Sept. 11, 2001, 100 times over. The worst-case scenario, according to Mr. Natsios, is a death toll that approaches 1 million.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21016-2004Jun6.html
Thank you spook:
Given our already extended commitments in Liberia, Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, the Balkans, East Asia and other areas, I strongly urge the Europeans to put their money where their mouth is and send troops to aid the poor hapless Sudanese in their hour of need. Once America helped Europe against Nazi aggression. Now, the time has come for Europe to prove that it too can give something back to the world community. Thanks Spook for raising that call to arms.
And I, Fred, commend you on the obvious sincerity of your concern for the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Sudanese people as we speak.
But as you have so correctly pointed out over the years Spook:
It’s only about oil for people like me. That and other strategic concerns. Where are the bleeding heart liberals that support saving the world now? Let them hear your cry and I fully support any efforts they may make. BUT… the US military is not about resolving conflicts such as these. Remember that is what the UN is supposed to be for. I will eagerly await a UN resolution authorizing European nations and say Canada to undertake action to bring relief to the long suffering Sudanese. After Iraq, neocons like me have certainly learned our lesson and we fully intend to follow the UN. Otherwise, I regret that we cannot act. Something to do with international law and precedents. I am sure that you understand.