What is an expat?

Hey guys, play nice.

I have ears in many places and I know that some of the moderators have been taking stick for… moderating.

I for one am happy to see the harder line being taken to weed out the dross from these forums.

I have nothing whatsoever against trolls and flamers… so long as they post with wit, elegance and style. I have seen not one single such post anywhere on these boards in all the time I’ve been here, so…

Keep up the good work, Angst, Gus et al.

I would be more intersested to see statistics of how many teaching positions are there available in Taiwan…how many of these are filled by qualified TEFOL or other equvilent qualifed teachers…and how many are vacant

What is more interesting is the governement restrictions on foreigners. If you get another job, that’s illegal, but at the same time if teachers could take a second or third or fourth and pay tax to the government, so why are they so against this. Also the government and the CLA should be more protective of foreign teachers.

On the whole cause of this you would get a more experienced teacher and not one that lives in fear of getting the chop, therefore the turn over would be lower.

The problem in Taiwan is that there are too much chopping and changing and dissatisfaction and people getting shafted by schools.

This means a higher turnover and higher numbers arriving and leaving each year, and also creating resentment and a lower standard of teaching in the classroom.
The people I feel sorry for here are the parents and the kids. The pay and are right to expect a good “standard” level of teacher instead of their English being based on the politics in the school.

The quality of teaching can be improved by somebody, its not nuclear physics, but the motivation must be there to do this, an unhappy work situation or trying to make more money per hour by jumping doesn’t help.

Plus there is a difference between speaking English and having the ability to speak English.
Most Taiwanese can speak English but do not have the ability to express themselves. They can remember phrases and words etc but cannot go beyond this. Your primary responsibility then is help them to develop like this. That is why they hire foreigners, to let the kids have their English and thinking be influenced by foreigners, maybe to broaden their minds.
I used to teach and now I work in an office, loads of people here can speak English but don’t have an English speaking mindset. So it is Taiwanese converted to English.
And in teaching this way, qualified people may be better at it, but it is a skill that others can develop. Belief me if you do TEFOL or teaching as a degree, they don’t teach you black magic and hypnotism to teach a language, mostly methods, to help you develop.

So simply, just cause you are qualified doesn’t make the person that isn’t qualified a complete waste of time and unable to teach. They can learn

What is more important is the attitude of the person to their job, everybody can have a good attitude or bad attitude, your qualifications don’t affect your attitude at 9.00 in the morning, sure you may be able to handle a bad day in the classroom better, but again this is something that people can learn.

I am not saying that getting a degree in teaching is comparable to spending three months in a bushiban or kindergaten, but the demands in a high school are higher than in an english speaking classroom, so this is where the qualifications come in.

Oh no not another post slagging off English teachers for being useless layabouts. Anyone who subscribes to this bullshit way of thinking is a pathetic narrow minded bigot. Lot of gross generalisation on oriented recently. The English teacher, the Expat, the Taiwanese girl who goes out with a foreigner etc etc etc (will it soon be The Jew, The Black …)

So there are some teachers out there who fit the stereotype, just as there are some ‘professionals’ out there who fit the ‘BMW-driving, kids at TAS, damned if I’ll be bothered learning a word of Chinese, shagging the maid’ stereotype. Doesn’t mean they’re all like that - or even the majority.

Finally who said teachers don’t work hard? Maybe some don’t, but I’m a teacher, I get paid more than I could doing other work, I enjoy teaching more than ‘office work’, but I’ve done both and teaching is a damn sight more tiring than most desk jobs. I also find it a lot more rewarding.

Bri

I think you’re on the right track, zhukov, but you’ve made one fatal mistake. You put your sympathy with the parents. I wouldn’t do that for a minute, because it’s the damn parents’ fault the system is as screwed up as it is. They’re the ones that want to walk in to a classroom and see the kids all sitting nicely getting their heads filled up with repetitious nonsense. I have not encountered a mindset that allows for a more creative approach to teaching, in which the kids are offerend a more “hands-on” or “interactive” role. The closest thing I’ve seen are some of the montessouri schools (or whatever the hell they’re called), but even those don’t allow a native English speaker to control the helm (ie structuring/designing the curriculum), and offer little flexibility for the teacher.

The problem with flexibility, I guess, is the fact that so many of the teachers in Taiwan are, as The original fool so elegantly put it, “fresh off the boat”, and lack the experience or natural ability to cope with a flexible system. Most of them don’t have a shred of training, but have egos too big to ask for any help or advice from other teachers. How a teacher with no experience can have an ego at all is beyond me, but I’ve seen it time and again.

Well, I guess the cat’s out of the bag. I’m an English teacher, and a disgruntled one, at that. I don’t have anything against teaching, because I love it and have a natural ability for it. But I’ve seen the way English teachers’ reputations have been totally decimated to the point that it’s difficult for any teacher to be taken seriously, even if they are doing it with a passion and with a purpose. The reasons are exactly those I’ve mentioned. The parents only care about a white face, and they can’t even distinguish between a skilled teacher and a poor one (save for certain extremes, of course). To prove my point, I have worked with non-native English speaking teachers, whose English skills are WORSE than some of the locals, and yet they get paid the same wages as the native speakers. Why? 'Cause they’re white. And do you know how hard it is to get a job when you’re black? It doesn’t matter how skilled you are, 'cause they don’t give a shit if you ain’t white. And the so-called “ABC”'s get the same shit, too, even if they were born and raised in a native English speaking country, went to school there and earned their %&#@ing English degree.

I know I’m bordering on “being critical of Taiwan”, here, but this is one area I understand and have a lot of experience with. Taiwanese people are some of the most racist on this planet! But I can’t blame them, either. It’s not like they’ve been living with other races for the last 200 years, and there’s some shit that has to be worked out. But that doesn’t mean I’m gonna sit on my ass and watch good teachers get thrown out with the morning garbage, just because they aren’t white. The funny thing is, if it weren’t for this racist shit, there might be a lot more qualified teachers to choose from. But most of us get tired of it and leave.

Bu Lai, it IS the majority of English teachers that are worthless, lazy, f’d up wankers. You’d have to be blind not to see that, but then maybe you’re lucky enough to work in a school that doesn’t give you that perception. Me…I take what I can get. But my situation is different. I’ve got a lot more than a teaching career to keep me here. Doesn’t mean I don’t care, but I’d probably be on a plane home if dealing with bureaucracy was all I had to look forward to, every day. But I grow more attached to this place, the longer I stay. That’s ironic, I guess, but the good outweighs the bad, most of the time.

My God you teachers can be boring.
Just get on with the job and shut up. I’ve never heard such a drone of whinging, approval-seeking rubbish in all my life.
Getting back to the real thread: EXPAT
The term was used in a negative way during Roman times at the later stages of the Roman empire when it’s Capital had transferred to Constantinople. There were many ‘defectors’ for want of a better word and to be a citizen of Rome certainly didn’t have the cache that it did previously;- so much so that many denounced their citizenships in order to stay alive in the face of the sacking hoards of Visigoths and the likes.
Therefore, the Emperor Constantine declared that these ‘dissidents’ were expatriates and had renounced all allegiances to the Empire and consequently it’s protection. The penalty for being an expatriate carried severe penalties- usually death preceded by torture.
Later on in the millennium the term ‘’expatriatus’’ was adopted by the Dutch East India Company to describe the status of it’s employees who were stationed in the spice islands. The term lost it’s negative connotations and in fact these expats often lost their lives abroad serving their country’s interests. If they ever did make it home they would mostly have a prodigal son’s welcome and be able to shag all the local women at the docks (mainly because their pockets were lined with riches).
The term was then given to employees of the British East India Co and it adopted an even more prestigious status, as directors of this company were posted all over the Orient.
Nowadays, however, as with so many definitions, it seems to encompass a whole gamut of uses, both negative and positive, from low income groups to high income groups and from those serving their countries interests to those renouncing allegiance to them.
To me, if I may allow myself to add a personal opinion, it is only a label and may carry good or bad connotations depending on how and by whom it is used. Don’t let yourself be labeled, categorized and stereotyped- it will help you to enjoy your job more without concerning yourself what category or group you fall into.

quote[quote] it IS the majority of English teachers that are worthless, lazy, f'd up wankers. [/quote]

Well I fundamentally disagree with you there. The majority that I’ve met are really nice people. Of course I’ve met a few arseholes, but most of these teachers are just ordinary foreigners living in Taiwan who are doing something they are in great demand to do.

If you thing most of them are f*cked up wankers (and why don’t you say “most of us”?), then I expect you just have a low opinion of people in general. Or perhaps your ‘rose colored spectacles’ view of Taiwan (that we must not criticise at all costs) leads you to think less of non-Taiwanese, just because they are from an inferior culture?

Bri

Well I think this is natural… the more somebody attacks you or your beliefs… the stronger your will and instinct becomes to defend them.
This seems to be the way many of these forums are going…posts based more on emotion rather than on a point they want to add

Personally… I taught English for a year and a half… I liked what I did… some people chose not to understand exactly what I did and therefore probably thought of me as a layabout.
Personally I don’t give a shit…I liked teaching…but wanted to do something else…sometimes I miss the kids but as a whole …it was a unique experience for me.

What is more important to me…is my happiness…if I do something and I like it …well lucky me…if I do something and you don’t like it…then well that’s your problem not mine

As Confucius said…“don’t complain about snow on the other persons roof when your cat has got diarrhea and has just painted the entrance to your house” or something along the lines of that.

Forgive me…I have a hangover.

I stand corrected. Most of us are f’d up wankers. Y’know, Bu Lai, I’ve met a lot of nice English teachers, too. But that doesn’t mean they know how to teach, or even care about the quality of their teaching. Most of them are lazy and just trying to earn some easy cash by doing practically nothing. And that’s not hard, considering all the schools require of them is that they be an interminably visible foreign spectacle for their clients/parents. Maybe the ESL industry here is just a guise for some kind of pseudo-neoteric entertainment industry. Now that I think about it, that’s what it’s really about. Entertainment. There’s no shame in it, unless you’re unwilling to admit that’s what it is.

As for your comment suggesting I look down on non-Taiwanese people, I disagree. Why? For one, because I’m not Taiwanese (isn’t that a good enough answer?). But the only kind of people I despise are the ones that are arrogant and self-righteous, and feel it is their place to point out every wrong that exists in Taiwan. That goes for Taiwanese people that do the same thing when they go to other countries. I’m targeting my displeasure at a very specific group of people, many of which often write in these forums.

Sorry this debate isn’t at least entertaining for you, charlesb, but your post was a welcome change of tone. Thank you for such an in-depth look at the history behind the word “expat”. It makes me want to go out and take a course on the history of nomenclature. But these days I’ve just got too much shit to do.

It is funny. When Taiwanese people live in the fifty states for extended periods, they don’t usually refer to themselves as “ex-pats.”

But in Taiwan, US citizens clearly see themselves as such.

Why the disparity?

[quote=“Hartzell”]It is funny. When Taiwanese people live in the fifty states for extended periods, they don’t usually refer to themselves as “ex-pats.”

But in Taiwan, US citizens clearly see themselves as such.

Why the disparity?[/quote]

One reason I can think of is they may have immigrated there and call themselves immigrants.

Perhaps it has to do with patriotism. Sure is a funny way to look at it.

According to my dictionnary, immigrant seems to mean that the move is more permanent as it relates to settling in a new country. Expat means more living abroad but without the settling aspect. I think settled or not, whealthy or scrounging, looking ten years ahead or taking it one day at the time, your an expat. An immigrant is an expat but an expat is not necessarly an immigrant. It would be difficult for me to consider myself an immigrant since my right to stay here is through a work contract. I’m considered an alien resident. Sounds like I’m not on my turf anyways and that makes me an expat I think.

Chinese will somewhere for 100 years and still call themselves Chinese. And probably have a Chinese/ROC passport.

[quote=“sandman”]I’m an expat. I’ve been here for 15 years after originally deciding to come for 6 months, then a year, then 2, then… I have a good job with pretty high pay. I haven’t accomplished anything of note that I couldn’t have accomplished anywhere else and have no idea why this should make me disillusioned. I’m actually very happy, except when I read asinine generalized claptrap by someone with a giant chip on their shoulder.[/quote] :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

Les see now… where do I fit in?

I drive an expensive German car that I bought new for cash. My son is at the American school. I can speak a few words of Chinese. I regularly flash out my business card and hang out in expensive sports bars, clubs, music lounges, and other esteemed establishments. One of my good friends who is not an English teacher tutors my son privately.

I used to make a shitload of money buying and selling people, and kept a Philippines housekeeper. Now I bring joy and happiness to those who need to watch something in their own language be it Japanese, Korean, Indonesian, Hindi, Urdu, Turkish, Vietnamese, French, German, Dutch, Arabic, and oh yes, English.

Many of my customers are much wealtheir than the expats on their expat packages, some of them earn less. But who really cares? We just get on with our lives and try to be happy with the environment we live in, and don’t look down our noses at others.

Dos this make me an expat Mr Expat?

Being aware that dictionaries define the word ‘expat’ very differently I have known the term only as a professional working in a country other than his home country, usually on an assignment by a foreign country and often with the benefit of a package (e.g. housing paid for), and without intent to settle down in that country he/she is working in.
The actual amount of your salary does IMHO not define if you are an expat or not.

But if you have been expelled from your home country you can also call yourself an expat. :smiley:

I always used that as a definition. Expats were those foreigners who made much more money than me.

Is this a torture test cuz it sure feels like a torture test, and was the first part of this sentence a statement or a question cuz it sure felt a lot more like a statement than a question. ? How bout the second part?

What is an expat?

Drew Bledsoe

OOC

What is an expat?

Drew Bledsoe

OOC[/quote]

The football player?