There is a huge difference if you have your own kids and you have to take care of them 24h a day. All the theories, all the good intentions, all the hours communicating and patiently explaining, all the love given to your kids… then, out of the blue your angel does some crazy dangerous shit and you end up reacting by forcefully preventing that, running the risk of hurting the child physically, emotionally and what not. What can you do? Life can be tough, life can be hurtful. I agree with any approach that tries to prevent physical punishment, but I think it’s an illusion that a kid can grow up without facing pain, be it in form of punishment for wrongdoings or be it in form of minor accidents on the playground. I see parent err on both sides of this issue. Being abusive on one side and creating primadonnas by coddling and protecting them to no end. For me, dangerous situations are where I feel I have no other choice but forcefully step in. I can’t have my child run across a busy street, throw stones at people, climb on railings, disregard life guards, etc.
I’m certain that with a few pricey in house consultations you can learn to steel yourself from such gross interventions.
If it doesn’t work and your child is inadvertently struck by a car I hope you would recommend to the driver the same pricey in house consultations.
It takes a village you see.
There is definitely a difference between saying on principal that you should never smack a child, and then actually having children and never actually smacking. It’s the general difference between commenting versus participating.
Do I believe that all violence in human relations is morally wrong on principle: yes
Have I smacked my children in the past: also yes
I’d sum up with what my father said to me when I called him out after he hit me. Something along the lines of ‘You are right. When you have kids don’t hit them.’ I passed the message one to my eldest after the previous - and I hope last time ever - that I smacked him: maybe he will have more success. 
Kids will have to be chipped to delay/ offset the instinct to be little shits I suppose.
Or just send all the “bad” parents to reeducation camps in China once they get done rewiring the Uyghurs for domestic tranquility.
No one’s perfect, I failed on a couple of occasions I suppose where it wasn’t necessary, but I think @nz has the right idea.
Really? Telling people she doesn’t know who don’t automatically agree with her that they should never be around any children?
You cannot get around human nature. Aggressiveness is a part of that. Especially in little boys. I’m not trying to channel Jordan Peterson here, but let them fight then pull them apart. Swat a butt or two.
To say that a swat on the butt for punitive correction or preventative protection is child abuse is nonsense.
Well, in as much as “physical force should not be used against a child for any reason”, as a principle to follow.
I’ve met a few—
I agree. You can see the results of permissive parenting in Taiwan now with kids running amuk and no control. They just let them do whatever now. Times that by 1000 in North America. I’d hate to be a teacher there. Or Taiwan.
There is a huge difference between a smack on the hand to correct dangerous behavior and outright beating a child. However I’m sure the law will allow for zero nuance.
Absolutely— however the whole threatening to hit a child you’ve swatted is one of my pet peeves. Swat or don’t— don’t threaten to swat and not follow through. That messes a kid up way worse.
A few from today news.
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A Hualien couple tortured a 1-year-old girl to death 7 months ago. Their full-term baby also died yesterday with multiple bruises on his body.
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1-year-old girl born by the biological mother and her ex-husband was tortured to death.
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man who beat up his cohabitant’s 5-year-old daughter, with injuries all over her body and a broken front tooth, was sentenced to 3 years in prison
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A pedophile man seduced and sexually assaulted 26 boys
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The father who sexually assaulted his daughter will be released from prison after 2 years
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Elementary school billiards coach assaulted 7 girls and sentenced to 4 years and 8 months.
And one of the most horrendous in recent history
Yeesh. Jesus. At least they’re catching these guys. Ffs
At least they’re catching them, but 2 years in prison?
Yeah there’s a bit too much sympathy, oh we can’t not release him as he’s got another kid- kind of thing. Ugh. 
Maybe his other kid would be better off without him? Placed in a loving foster home or something?
Yea seems a bit too relaxed. These kids are basically defenseless. Really sad. 
Loving? Ever been in a foster home?
Safe would be good place to start, imo.
You like to pick fights don’t you?
The idea is to find a loving foster home. Not that all foster homes are loving.
Just sharing my experience. “Loving” and “foster home” just seem to be an odd pairing— to me.
When I worked at CPS, the foster care unit was moving kids from their parents home to “safe” foster homes. I went to a few—
Ahh, I see where you get your bias. Yet, there must be at least a few genuine loving foster homes right? I think that as with all things, as long as money is involved, some people will find a way to game the system. If they are in it for the money, they are not doing it out of love. Those are the terrible foster homes. But, surely, somewhere out there, there must be at least a few where people wanted to open up their homes to children out of compassion.
The foster home system needs to do better to weed out those that are not doing it out of genuine love.