Split from this thread: Foreigners who don’t acknowledge other foreigners on the street
[quote=“tsukinodeynatsu”]My experience with Russians is that they’re the Koreans of the Western World.
You know, everything comes from Russia, and the Russian way is the BEST EVER.[/quote]
Forgive me but are Russians westerners? I thought not.
Doesn’t a nation have to be admitted to the club? I am not sure when Russia was ever considered a member of the west. When did they get that priveledge?
fenlander: They’re not.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]fenlander: They’re not.[/quote]GIT =
FenMan knows they aren’t. he has a closet full of Moisin Nagant 91-30s and a Simo Häyhä tattoo to show his loyalty…
That’s very much open to debate.
That’s very much open to debate.[/quote]
Not really. Religiously, they split from the Catholic West (which later split further during the Reformation) in the Middle Ages and they also use Cyrillic. At these two really basic cultural levels, they’re very different to the West. The “West” was transmitted gradually westward, and the big distinction is whether people inherited the Western or Eastern Roman Empires. Russia definitely inherited the Eastern.
Then, they didn’t go through the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Age of Englightenment or the Industrial Revolution in anything resembling the same time frame that those things happened in the West. They only emancipated their serfs in the late 19th century. Stalin dragged them kicking and screaming into the 20th century, but so what? So did other non-Western leaders in their respective countries.
Until Peter the Great, they didn’t really have deep cultural or diplomatic relations with the West either. However, Peter the Great, and the subsequent St Petersburg elite who spoke French, were, in some senses, like fishes out of water within Russia. They were essentially a tiny European minority tacked onto a very non-European majority.
That’s very much open to debate.[/quote]
Yeah, the Rooskies like to call themselves Western.
Just like the Ausbos refuse to admit they’re part of Asia.
the chief: Some Russians do call themselves Western, but many don’t.
Australia is not part of Asia. It’s part of Oceania/Australasia/Australia. I wouldn’t give a rodent’s earlobe if it were part of Asia, but it’s not.
That’s very much open to debate.[/quote]
Not really. Religiously, they split from the Catholic West (which later split further during the Reformation) in the Middle Ages and they also use Cyrillic. At these two really basic cultural levels, they’re very different to the West. The “West” was transmitted gradually westward, and the big distinction is whether people inherited the Western or Eastern Roman Empires. Russia definitely inherited the Eastern.
Then, they didn’t go through the Renaissance, the Reformation, the Age of Englightenment or the Industrial Revolution in anything resembling the same time frame that those things happened in the West. They only emancipated their serfs in the late 19th century. Stalin dragged them kicking and screaming into the 20th century, but so what? So did other non-Western leaders in their respective countries.
Until Peter the Great, they didn’t really have deep cultural or diplomatic relations with the West either. However, Peter the Great, and the subsequent St Petersburg elite who spoke French, were, in some senses, like fishes out of water within Russia. They were essentially a tiny European minority tacked onto a very non-European majority.[/quote]
It’s very much open to debate in the sense that there’s a big debate about it. You have your POV, fine, but that’s not the end of the debate. Just Google “Is Russia part of the West” to see what I mean.
[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]the chief: Some Russians do call themselves Western, but many don’t.
Australia is not part of Asia. It’s part of Oceania/Australasia/Australia. I wouldn’t give a rodent’s earlobe if it were part of Asia, but it’s not.[/quote]
Yeah, my point exactly.
I work with loads of fuckin Rooskers, and believe me, ain’t a one of them considers him/herself “Asian”.
And that whole fucking artificially clobbered-up “Oceania” and “Australasia” horse hockey is simply a way for the fucking convicts to differentiate themselves from the fackin Woggers.
If the island were solely populated by little black and brown fellas, it would be as much part of Asia as fuckin Thailand.
Worked with lots of Russians, too.
They are NOT East Asian and NOT European.
But, they do have a bloody minded CENTRAL Asian mindset.
the chief: Did I say Russians were Asian? Western does not equal European and non-Western does not equal Asian.
If I say a beagle is not a cat, that doesn’t mean it’s a fish.
Likewise, this ridiculous claim:
Most of the nations in Oceania are solely populated by little black and brown fellas.
There are many different possible reasons for distinguishing Oceania from Asia, be it the ethno-linguistic groups, the flora and fauna, or even the fact that it’s a bunch of islands in an ocean.
The West = Weigwo.
There is no “West”. It doesn’t exist in reality. It is an artificial and vague concept with no clear agreed-upon definition. Arguing about how to apply such concepts is often a waste of time. Are tomatoes fruits or vegetables? The latter are just human-imposed categories with limited value. Who cares? Just make the damned pasta already; I’m hungry!
hmm maybe the exact border is hard to define in some cases… but i am most definetly west… and my commi taiwanese coworkers are definetly east.
Well, I thnk it’s fair to opine that Western Rooskies - that it, those from Moscow, St. Pertersburg, etc, can be considered Western.
They:
Russia’s a huge place though, so clearly there are parts of it that don’t belong to the West.
The West is the best.
[quote=“BigJohn”]Well, I thnk it’s fair to opine that Western Rooskies - that it, those from Moscow, St. Pertersburg, etc, can be considered Western.
They:
Russia’s a huge place though, so clearly there are parts of it that don’t belong to the West.[/quote]
I thought most Russians were slavs rather than Vikings?
Edit 1 : I am searching the Internet and it seems that there are references to some Russians originating from Scandanavia so perhaps you are right. I did not know this.
Edit 2: Most information I found so far only has a small proportion of Russian being Viking.
Edit 3: I also found out that Slav is not a race and that the majority of Slavs are not Viking.
The main christian religion of the Russians was also the Eastern Orthodox Church which certianly does not sterngthen the case for them being considered Western.
I think I am swaying to “Guy in Taiwan’s” side of the argument. I would not consider Russians western although they maybe borderline in some aspects.
[quote=“BigJohn”]Well, I thnk it’s fair to opine that Western Rooskies - that it, those from Moscow, St. Pertersburg, etc, can be considered Western.
They:
Russia’s a huge place though, so clearly there are parts of it that don’t belong to the West.[/quote]
Wrong. I assume you’re talking about people such as Rurik of Novgorod, Kievan Rus, and all of that. Firstly, it’s a controversial subject, semi-legendary in status. Secondly, even if Rurik was who people say he was, the Russians are not largely descended from Vikings. The Vikings, at the most, were the nobility. A more plausible definition of Russians would be largely descended from Mongolians than Vikings, as they probably had more of an effect, though that claim would not be true either.
What does being Christian have to do with it? There are Coptic Christians in Ethiopia. The Christianity in Russia is Orthodox. See my earlier post about the schism in the Middle Ages.
Not exactly. A large part of it was borrowed from the West, starting from Peter the Great trying to make St Petersburg the Venice of the North. However, there is also a distinctly Russian style in architecture, music and so on.
No they don’t. They use a variation of the Greek alphabet which predates the Roman alphabet.
I would say that they don’t have social norms and values broadly similar to people in Western Europe, both at the macroscopic and microscopic level. As I previously mentioned, they didn’t go through the major movements of the Renaissance, Reformation, Age of Enlightenment and so on in anything vaguely resembling the same time frame as Western Europe. They had an empire that was feudal until close to the end of the 19th century, then they had communism for three quarters of a century, and now they have something that is a liberal democracy in name only.
I really suggest you read just a little bit more about Russia next time.
Does being pissheads count?
Passing from Russia to Mongolia (or reaching the Asiatic Russian Republic of Buryatia) there is a difference. i.e. Mainstream Russia, even in the east, feels more European than its Asian republics or neighbours. In terms of the people, in European Russia and most of the way across Siberia, they felt broadly similar, easy to relate to, particularly over vodka (compulsory) at 9am.
Russia: The Wild East, from BBC Radio 4. 25 part, daily 15 minute series, starting last Monday, available to listen again. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b010dk1x
There’s also a series on Russia viewed through art on MOD TV (on demand) here at the moment. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pdgjw
[quote]A major new history series begins this week which traces the development of Russia over a period of 1,000 years. The first five weeks take the listener from the beginning of the Russian state in 862 A.D. up to the cataclysmic revolution of 1917. Martin Sixsmith, who writes and presents the series, was the BBC’s Moscow Correspondent in 1991. The series begins with a vivid recording of his report on the events that led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.
As he says: 'I remember with absolute clarity my conviction that the dissolution of the Communist Party after seventy years in power, meant the monster of autocracy was dead in Russia, that centuries of repression would be thrown off and replaced with freedom and democracy. But I was wrong.
The country is stable and relatively prosperous now, but democracy and freedom again take second place to the demands of the state: the spectre of autocracy is again haunting Russia. Back in 1991, in the grip of Moscow’s euphoria, I’d forgotten the lesson of history - that in Russia things change … only to remain the same. Attempts at reform, followed by a return to autocracy, had happened so often in Russia’s past that it was very unlikely things would be different this time. ’
In this first programme, Martin travels to the northern city of Novgorod. It was there that, ancient history has it, the warring Slav tribes invited Rurik to come and bring order. He was the first iron fist, and he gave Rus-sia its name. But, as Martin Sixsmith points out, already by the late ninth century, two key leitmotifs of Russian history are beginning to emerge - the tendency towards autocracy, and the urge for aggression and expansion. Today Russia spans eleven time zones and is home to a hundred nationalities and a hundred and fifty languages.[/quote]
Oriental despotism.