What kind of atheist are you?

1.3 million web pages can’t be wrong. You’re gonna rot in hell.

I used to believe passionately in an all powerful, all knowing and loving God. I still want to believe, but at age 16 was introduced to Bertrand Russell and in subsequent years became fascinated with the Enlightenment philosophy of Voltaire et.al. Try as I might, I’ve found it impossible to reconcile this thinking with the Baby Jesus story. These days I identify as an agnostic with theistic tendencies - the agnostic bit is all head, the tendencies are all heart.

I grew up atheist so I’m not sure what kind that makes me. I’ve never actually been to a Christian church service, except for weddings and funerals. Some of my best high school friends were Christian and they would tell me stuff but it never seemed to make much sense.

FWIW, Buddhism (not the local variety, more Theravada) sounds to me to be the most plausible, followed by Hinduism.

That always puzzles me, when people say that Buddhism sounds reasonable. What about reincarnation and karma? And the idea that our goal is to avoid having to be reborn on earth, in a physical body? And that there exist such things as hungry ghosts, gods, etc.?

Hinduism has all the same stuff, plus the caste system. (Okay, okay–some Hindus spoke out against the caste system, while many Buddhists embrace a caste system similar to Hinduism.)

I have never had any god belief in my life.

I grew up without religion in my immediate family - no church, no saying grace, no prayers, no Bible readings (and I remain ever grateful to my parents for that). My only exposure to religion before age 8 was when we’d accompany my devout Lutheran grandparents to church during our annual visits (an act I found boring and pointless - the churchgoing, not the visits).

At age 8 my family moved to England where I attended state schools with CofE services during morning assembly…something my peers (and probably the teachers too) found boring and pointless. Here was this invisible “god” character again, being praised and petitioned by people who were supposed to be smarter than me. By then I had outgrown imaginary friends; why hadn’t these grownups?

Then it was back to the Bay Area, where I finished off my secondary schooling in a pretty much religion-free environment. In fact, I can’t recall ever meeting a truly religious person my age until I was 18, with the exception of one Jewish girl I thought was cute. Then at 18 I went to college in the Midwest, and encountered people my age who actively and fervently believed in god. That was a shocker! Even more of a shocker was discovering that some of those people took Adam & Eve and the Flood to be real, historical events, something I was convinced nobody, even the devoutly religious, actually believed. I thought my generation was the first one that grew up without religion, and that religion would consequently die out by the early 21st century. But this turned out not to be the case.

One poster above comments that he wishes he could believe in god. I have no such wish: I regard belief in god or in any supernatural phenomenon as neither necessary nor desirable. It seems a cop-out: a way of rationalizing away the unknown instead of trying to figure our world out by means of science and reason.

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]That always puzzles me, when people say that Buddhism sounds reasonable. What about reincarnation and karma? And the idea that our goal is to avoid having to be reborn on earth, in a physical body? And that there exist such things as hungry ghosts, gods, etc.?

Hinduism has all the same stuff, plus the caste system. (Okay, okay–some Hindus spoke out against the caste system, while many Buddhists embrace a caste system similar to Hinduism.)[/quote]

I think most Westerners approach it from a more rarified Chan/zen/philosophical direction, and tend to discount actual Buddhist beliefs. Some people are shocked when informed that Buddhism (of the major varieties, anyway) rejects other roads t oenlightenment.

i believe that was me: but that was a long time ago, when the thought of not believing was (as i had been told repeatedly up to the age of 17) ‘wrong’ and ‘sinful’. like i’ve said elsewhere, the Christians, and especially the Catholics, do the guilt-trip mind-lock incredibly well. it took me some while to get over it but i’m all fixed now.

As for atheism, I think the main distinction is between strong and weak varieties.

Strong atheism: I believe that there is no God

Weak atheism: I don’t believe that there is a God.

Me?- I used to be an agnostic, but now I’m not so sure.

If I found this subject remotely interesting, I’d be keen to know how many others there are like Chris – non-religious because that’s basically how he was raised, or religious because their parents are (or were).
I relate to Chris in that my parents also are absolutely non-religious. I haven’t been baptized and I my old man was keen to make sure I wasn’t christened, either – I was simply “named,” apparently. I’ve never been inside a church unless I was stealing lead off the roof or attending a wedding or funeral. I always managed to get out of religious studies at school because of the band, so for me, the idea of god and sweet baby jeebus, etc., is simply an alien concept. Fairytales, just like the Brothers Grimm.
Religion for me throughout childhood and young adulthood was basically Catholic versus Protestant sectarian gang wars and to this day, the image of Fenians and Orangemen stabbing one another is what comes to mind when I see the word “religion” – an awful, disgusting, negative thing, in other words.
My sisters were raised the same, but one of them has found the lord and goes to church and bakes cakes and sorts of shit like that.
How many other people here were raised totally non-religious and embraced the fairytales only in later life?

I’m pretty much the same as you Sandy. My mother comes from pretty strict Methodist stock and she had no interest in forcing that upon her children. So the whole thing just never came up.
I remember going into a Church for a school trip when i was 12 and the teacher gave us a plan of the building and we had to write down what the different parts of the church were called (pulpit etc).

The whole class got everything wrong. That was my only visit to a church that wasn’t because of a marriage or a death until I got married myself this year.

Guam’s an island, not a church, you blithering pillock.

i can remember our sixth class school trip. we went to Canberra. i somehow think Guam would have been more fun.

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]That always puzzles me, when people say that Buddhism sounds reasonable. What about reincarnation and karma? And the idea that our goal is to avoid having to be reborn on earth, in a physical body? And that there exist such things as hungry ghosts, gods, etc.?

Hinduism has all the same stuff, plus the caste system. (Okay, okay–some Hindus spoke out against the caste system, while many Buddhists embrace a caste system similar to Hinduism.)[/quote]

In some ways, I like the idea of karma. Me being solely responsible for my future through my actions sounds reasonable, hoping some god or other is looking out for me doesn’t.

I had the hungry ghosts, gods etc explained to me as being symbolic. For example, I spent some time in Bodhgaya, India and a monk told me that the beggars who were there were the hungry ghosts and many of the highly worshipped lamas, monks and other officials were the gods. That made sense, even though I don’t think I’m explaining it well here.

To answer Sandy’s question - I was raised in an atheist family. My mum’s side of the family going back a couple of generations didn’t believe in god, and my Dad’s side while techically Catholic, never seemed to go to church or pray or anything like that.

Can’t we have a normal discussion around here without someone coming along and insulting everyone who disagrees with them? :loco:

Can’t we have a normal discussion around here without someone coming along and insulting everyone who disagrees with them? :loco:[/quote]
Of course we can, dickhead.

Can’t we have a normal discussion around here without someone coming along and insulting everyone who disagrees with them? :loco:[/quote]
HA HA! Dragonbones fed the troll. Pretty half-fledged attempt, though. Like one of those squabs you sometimes see on the lawn, all scrawny neck, gaping beak, pin feathers and pathetic cheeping. :laughing:

Unintentional trolling on my part! I was just being blunt. So easy to offend some people.

I’m not an atheist.
Why split hairs?
Especially with the foul-smelling ones…

Yet, if I was, I would build my tower high & strong…

I can’t be religious. I’m not enough of an arsehole.
Hmm. Yes, I see. It is indeed so easy to offend some people.
Get the picture yet? :unamused:

What kind of an atheist am I? Well, the skeptical kind, with a bit of bitter, angry residue at the bottom of the glass.

The skepticism came first, and is the strongest, most enduring element. I always question things, including what I’m taught in school, and what I see on the news. I always will. In my late teens I started questioning why an all-powerful deity would condemn people to eternal Hell just for failing to believe what some guy in a frock and some dead people in a book were telling me, especially when the stories I was being told were so, well, unbelievable, and when there were equally implausible stories being told in other places by other religions. Most people just grow up believing whatever their parents believe, and have no real reason to run off and embrace another faith just because that faith says you should. And if you don’t, you’ll burn in Hell for all eternity? Git out!

I simply could not bring myself to believe that a benevolent deity would so punish people. Certainly there are lots of other, more attractive deities to choose from, no?

Nor could I understand why I would be born with any sin, just because some long-dead woman in a Jewish creation myth offered an apple to some long-dead dude. WTF? And why should the execution of some ancient rabble-rouser in a far-off land, if he really existed, have any bearing whatsoever on my life? Why should we believe that this particular person’s claim to be a messiah or to be divine has any more legitimacy than any of the other countless such claims throughout history?

More importantly, I couldn’t accept that I was REQUIRED by my parents to buy into that, and was faced with a certain degree of ostracism in my society if I didn’t. (How many atheists do you see getting elected to office in the U.S., after all?) It left me speechless. As did the historical sins of the Church, such as war (the Crusades), torture (the Inquisition), murder, corruption, abuse of power, and recently, child abuse en masse, for which sins I think a few more messiahs will need to die in order to make it all even.

And then there were the other guys in frocks telling conflicting stories. How is a person to choose which to believe, and why would a god, having failed to show up in person or answer any of my prayers anyway, punish me for not believing this one or that one? Why would my parents’ faith automatically be the right one and other people’s parents be wrong, when neither story was remotely plausible anyway? And why would such a deity crave our belief, our worship, our saccharine adoration? An omnipotent being doesn’t need insignificant little me groveling at its feet. It didn’t make sense. Not at all. Nor did pleas to simply open my heart or believe blindly or stop questioning. No, God, if there is a creator God, gave me a brain and logic and healthy skepticism for a reason, and I’m not going to waste these gifts.

I also didn’t think that a deity worth worshipping or an organized religion worth following would have literature with such flagrant internal contradictions and objectionable content, nor would they treat women as inferior, as the Catholic Church does. (How many priests, bishops, cardinals and popes are female?) And what’s with all this guilt and sin crap? The message was far too negative to accept.

Then there is the problem of how religion was in fact being forced upon me by my parents; I wasn’t being given the choice of whether to believe or not, or whether to attend mass or not. That offended and angered me. I rebelled against it, and it caused a deep split in my family, and several decades of conflict have followed, because they can’t respect my own choice of what to believe. I observed how the societies I grew up in also force religion upon you, printing it on the supposedly secular nation’s money, and making the kids recite it in pledges of allegiance, banning liquor sales on their holy day in some areas, and so on. And I grew angrier. And look at how the Catholic church bans contraception, as Surly pointed out today elsewhere, so as to inflate its own ranks and ensure its own prosperity, at the expense of its followers, who will continue to suffer lower standards of living due to excessively large families, overcrowding, pollution and so on. And look how other religions and perversions thereof have fomented religious conflict and terrorism around the globe.

So now I’m a bitter, angry skeptic – one who tries to respect the fact that, for many, including all my family members and many of my friends, faith is an important part of their personal lives, and who understands that it can sometimes be a positive force for good, but one who is furious at the way far too many religious people try to shove their beliefs down everyone’s throats, and at the way America is so deeply prejudiced against rationality and skepticism. Look at the way science and evolution are treated, and the fact that politicians are forced to profess their faith or they won’t have any chance of getting elected. In a supposedly secular society, that’s plain wrong!

I might have continued to believe, had I grown up in another faith, another family, another country. But I doubt it, as I’m just too fundamentally skeptical. More likely, I would have still become a nonbeliever, but perhaps not such a hard atheist, and quite likely not such a bitter, angry one.

Well I’m better than you. You only hate the damn Fenians. I hate the damn proddies just as much as the papists. I win.