The information is out there and even on Forumosa, if you search for it.
Open racism has not been a part of US politics (well aside from David Duke, and a few others) for quite some time – almost forty years. At least not at a party leadership level. Also, it isn’t as though the politicians who were agaisnt integration have retained their seats ever since. The dinosaurs went the way of the well, dinosaurs.
As opposed to here, where the time in question is less than a generation. Also, no big purge, shake-up or even apology has happened within the ranks of the pan-Blues.
Politically, they’re all like a bunch of elementary schoolkids squabbling in a schoolyard, so I can’t taker any of them at all seriously.
I’d be tempted to say I’d favour anyone who is anti-panblue, but when the alternative is pangreen… bunch of stupid kids.
And that outlook is a slippery slope, in any case. I was anti-Thatcher when I left UK, not anti-Tory, like many other people there, but look what that got us – Tonee Bllleuuurgh and his bunch of clowns – so that was a bad plan, too.
Face it, China will have Taiwan next year, in five, ten or 15 years, what’s the difference? Exchange one bunch of corrupt inept fools for another.
The information is out there and even on Forumosa, if you search for it.
Open racism has not been a part of US politics (well aside from David Duke, and a few others) for quite some time – almost forty years. At least not at a party leadership level. Also, it isn’t as though the politicians who were agaisnt integration have retained their seats ever since. The dinosaurs went the way of the well, dinosaurs.
As opposed to here, where the time in question is less than a generation. Also, no big purge, shake-up or even apology has happened within the ranks of the pan-Blues.
There’s your difference.[/quote]
But race has taken on subtle forms like affirmative action positions, immigration policy position, gay right position. Does the fact that the USA use more subtle code for race issues mean that the issues are resolved.
My question is are there any pro-KMT literature available in English?
I did not mean to suggest that US politics or society is free of racism. Just that the “legacy” of racism that zeugumite referred to, and as I understood it, was specifically related to the Civil Rights era – anti-integration, etc…
Those politicians who were fiercely opposed to it fell to the wayside eventually.
Its not that I don’t care, its that there’s no choice – morons, morons or morons. :s[/quote]
Oh come on, there are Taiwanese speaking morons, Mandarin speaking moron, Chinglish speaking morons…there is always a way to distinquish between the bad choices.
The poll is interesting but I don’t think the left/right political divide is that relevant in the post-modern world. There is little reason for there to be any correlation between left/right and blue/green either as the blue/green divide in Taiwan politics is based almost entirely on historical legacy. The economic and social policies of the two camps are not vastly different.
I think another interesting poll would be “are you blue/green and which English newspaper do you read in Taiwan?” The results would be fairly predictable I think.
I think another reason for foreigners choosing to identify with the blues in Taiwan is their formative experiences of China and studying Chinese language or history. If someone has lived and studied in china before coming to Taiwan they are more likely to have made up their mind in a certain way about the status of Taiwan. Also if someone has spent a lot of time studying Chinese language or history, whether it is in China, Taiwan or elsewhere, with a teacher who strongly identifies with the idea of “One China” they may also tend to be blue.
I think it’s because we foreigners were not raised reading KMT propaganda history books, so we can see Taiwan’s de facto independence and the KMT’s illegitimacy and abusive history for what they are.
Now, if the majority of Taiwanese voted to reunify with China, I would of course respect their right of self determination. But when opinion polls take out the fear of China factor, most locals favor independence. I think the laowai, free of the fear factor (because they can leave easily) also favor infependence, so this might be another aspect.
The DPP is a much more modern, media-savvy party than the KMT. Just look at how the KMT is still unable to handle a “peaceful succession” internally at the moment. Wang Jin-pyng, a backroom politician with LBJ-like talents, is running circles around Ma Ying-jeou who almost certainly has more popular support.
I disagree with your second point though. I think the greens have actually LOST support among foreigners with their clumsy attempts at getting their point of view across in English. The Taiwan News, the Taipei Times etc. have done a great deal to turn foreigners off on the greens. This seems to be especially true of recent arrivals.
Taipei Times is just too slanted pro-green (this coming from a deep anti-blue BTW). I mean, just because I’m anti-blue doesn’t mean I want to read biased coverage. But Lianhebao is just as bad the other way, so I’m not sure greens have actually done a worse job on this than blues.
I have a couple of theories. One is that we tend to judge Taiwan in comparison with China and its political system, and perceive the Blue / Green split in these terms. Many of us are aware of the Green side’s failings, and yet would pick them over the Blue side any day for this reason.
Another is that the votes for “right” or “left” or “apolitical” are, in these circles, likely to refer to the same people. I mean the Liberarian types who don’t expect government services and want low taxes, but also don’t care about moral or “lifestyle issues,” and often don’t vote either. Naturally a group like this (typical of the youngish, technologically savvy internet folks) is not going to view the PRC favorably, but the KMT / PFP look like dinosaurs too from this perspective.
You lost me on that one. Is there a gay race? :eh:[/quote]
In terms of politics it is a “diversity issue” which is an extension of the Civil Rights movement in the USA. Granted the original Civil Rights issues were about granting political equality to Blacks and women. The legacy has extended into sexual orientation.
Just like the evolution of BSR vs WSR ethnic issue has slowly evolved into the the codification of “Love Taiwan.” and “authentic Taiwanese” concepts.
Many here have cited since they were brought up to have more affinity to terms like “democracy” and “freedom,” but how can you be certain your views are accurate without having access to KMT literature and point of view?
Having lived abroad I have heard comments that Chinese immigrants views on politics in the USA are dismissed for not going through the American education system or for not being acculturated enough. How can we be certain that the same is not happening here in the expat population on Taiwan.
Many here have cited since they were brought up to have more affinity to terms like “democracy” and “freedom,” but how can you be certain your views are accurate without having access to KMT literature and point of view? [/quote]
Well, their public comments are more than enough. let’s see… miss you jiang Jingguo. Against the arms purchase, which makes sense to most. Against referendums. Moaning like babies against the “stolen” election. Sheesh, 1/3 of that could make any but the dullest foreigner green.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]
Having lived abroad I have heard comments that Chinese immigrants views on politics in the USA are dismissed for not going through the American education system or for not being acculturated enough. How can we be certain that the same is not happening here in the expat population on Taiwan.[/quote]
Well…my views are my views. My views are accurate from my perspective. On the same page, how can you be sure the views of a foreigner are not MORE accurate. In confronting any problem, the advice of someone outside the problem is often crucial to solving it. That is why when you write a paper, you get someone else to proofread it.
I think that the views from the inside and from the outside are both invaluable when considered together.
One of the most infuriating things I heard over and over when I was living in China is that I could understand nothing about China because I was not Chinese. Well…the natural response to this is the fable of the frog in the well who has never seen the sea. Sometimes, when you are so immersed in your own system, you fail to see the inadequacies of that system. This is not to say that the visitor to the well knows everything about what goes on inside the well, but having visited the well, they have experience with more than one environment. Their opinion should therefore not be so easily discounted.
The plain English response to the question of weather the views of a foreigner can be accurate or not is: How can you be so sure your OWN views are accurate if your experience with other systems is limited. (The "you"s in this case are all general, of course. I am not targeting AC.)
Don’t care anywhere has spoken