[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Lucky enough to escape, what into HK? Define lucky?
HG[/quote]
This could have been their fate. The butt of a cheap joke.
[quote=“Belgian Pie”][quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]…
I’d say today one of the better legacies is a penchant for personal hygiene. The cousins across the water and the dirty little scum in HK stink to high heaven …
HG[/quote]
The stinkers are the one that came over with the KMT?[/quote]
Yes that’s right, the pan of blue cheesers, or pan blues for short. Stinky, fidgety nervy types for the most part.
HG
Nakashi, maybe?[/quote]
演歌（えんか）。
[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Not so pertinent today, but I once read a great interview with a former KMT soldier who had come over in 1947 to put down the 2-28 riots. He said that getting off the ship in Jilong everything he saw looked Japanese - the houses, the fashion, hairstyles and even the language. After enduring WWII in China, he had no sympathy for the Taiwanese at all, who he saw as basically Japanese. He mentioned firing into crowds with not a skerrick of remorse.
I’d say today one of the better legacies is a penchant for personal hygiene. The cousins across the water and the dirty little scum in HK stink to high heaven, whereas my better memories of Taiwan involve sitting in the slipstream of scooters in summer soaking in the delightful scent of freshly washed womanhood.
HG[/quote]
Keelung looked like this in the Japanese era.
Kaohsiung looked like this:
Re: the education system…
I don’t know what it’s like in mainland China for comparison, but from what I know of it the Taiwanese system seems virtually identical to Japan’s.
Entrance exams are the focus, from kindergarten (youchien) through high school, with the goal being to enter the most prestigious university possible, where you then party & barely graduate before getting hired as a robot in some gigantic company based solely on your alma mater.
The juku/buxiban/cram school concept is identical, as is the notion that spending thousands of hours memorizing reams of names, dates, and facts actually leaves you “educated”. The lack of critical thinking and the “I read the textbook verbatim, you sit there & listen” fill-their-head-buckets approach to education is the same in Japan, and hasn’t changed for decades. The bureaucratic inability/unwillingness to change an obviously broken system is also very Japanese…
Until very recently (late '90s?) Japanese students did attend school six days a week, but that changed to allow them more free time. The parents reacted by freaking out over test prep, and cram school attendance increased to offset the change.
I haven’t been to a Taiwanese high school, but I haven’t heard the same tales of rampant bullying and ostracizing of students who don’t fit in, as is the case in Japan. That could stem from Taiwan already obviously being a multi-ethnic society. This is a good thing.
Numerous TV dramas (many adapted from original Japanese series) still point to the psychological and emotional trauma of attending junior high/high school as a huge underlying factor in society. It is the focal point and defining moment in life. Sad.
Have Taiwanese adopted the Japanese work system? “Stay in the office until the boss finishes even though I stopped working hours ago, then go drinking with him until midnight, even though I’d rather go home to my family.” Doesn’t seem that way here, but I don’t really know.
I will say that Taiwanese seem to speak much better English than their Japanese peers, probably due to their language(s) having similar grammar plus a much broader range of sounds & syllables than Japanese.
[quote=“sjhuz01”]
I don’t know what it’s like in mainland China for comparison, but from what I know of it the Taiwanese system seems virtually identical to Japan’s.
Entrance exams are the focus, from kindergarten (youchien) through high school, with the goal being to enter the most prestigious university possible, where you then party & barely graduate before getting hired as a robot in some gigantic company based solely on your alma mater.
The juku/buxiban/cram school concept is identical, as is the notion that spending thousands of hours memorizing reams of names, dates, and facts actually leaves you “educated”. The lack of critical thinking and the “I read the textbook verbatim, you sit there & listen” fill-their-head-buckets approach to education is the same in Japan, and hasn’t changed for decades. The bureaucratic inability/unwillingness to change an obviously broken system is also very Japanese…
Until very recently (late '90s?) Japanese students did attend school six days a week, but that changed to allow them more free time. The parents reacted by freaking out over test prep, and cram school attendance increased to offset the change.
I haven’t been to a Taiwanese high school, but I haven’t heard the same tales of rampant bullying and ostracizing of students who don’t fit in, as is the case in Japan. That could stem from Taiwan already obviously being a multi-ethnic society. This is a good thing.
Numerous TV dramas (many adapted from original Japanese series) still point to the psychological and emotional trauma of attending junior high/high school as a huge underlying factor in society. It is the focal point and defining moment in life. Sad.
I will say that Taiwanese seem to speak much better English than their Japanese peers, probably due to their language(s) having similar grammar plus a much broader range of sounds & syllables than Japanese.[/quote]
it is not surprising that there are broad similarities between Japan and Taiwan schools, seeing as the education system here was set up by the Japanese. but Japan has a large number of kids that don’t fit in, and a tolerance for some standardised subcultures that i don’t see here. perhaps that is the source of some angst about fitting in, as you mention seems reflected in japanese cartoons, manga etc. but don’t forget that those very same series are immensely popular here too, for the same reasons, but Taiwanese don’t even like to voice those opinions or give them airspace. there is a school suicide problem here too.
i am not so sure that the better english here (and that is actually a very debatable point) is due to inherent differences in language structure and phoneme range (which is not as broad in Chinese as you would like to think) but more to a greater intrusion of American culture into Taiwan, and the fact that Taiwan is tiny in comparison to japan and therefore cannot sustain itself culturally as well as Japan, in every thing from text book production to TV series.
and as for Taiwan “already obviously being a multi-ethnic society”, where does that come from? it is perhaps true that there are two-three main languages here, but they are all written the same way, and walking the streets shows even the casual observer that the two are equally essentially monocultural. with the possible exception of Okinawa.
[quote=“urodacus”] it is not surprising that there are broad similarities between Japan and Taiwan schools, seeing as the education system here was set up by the Japanese.[/quote] Yes, which is why I brought it up re: the original question 
[quote=“urodacus”]I am not so sure that the better english here (and that is actually a very debatable point) is due to inherent differences in language structure and phoneme range (which is not as broad in Chinese as you would like to think)[/quote] Just personal observation after living both places & studying both languages, with admittedly much greater exposure to Japanese people.
Although Chinese dialects don’t have the broad “phoneme range” of English either, Japanese grow up hearing/speaking about 10% as many vowel/consonant combinations, dipthongs, etc as a native Mandarin speaker (maybe 120 compared to 1000+). I’m not a linguistics pro, but I think the narrow range of sounds and grammatically complex, contextual nature of their native tongue prohibits many Japanese from achieving fluency in foreign languages unless they start at a very early age. English conversational ability here might suck too, but at least to my ear they sound moderately more intelligible 
[quote=“urodacus”]…but more to a greater intrusion of American culture into Taiwan, and the fact that Taiwan is tiny in comparison to japan and therefore cannot sustain itself culturally as well as Japan, in every thing from text book production to TV series.[/quote] I’d argue the “intrusion” of American culture point. There has never been a significant U.S. presence in Taiwan, compared to 60+ years of nationwide postwar presence in Japan. For the last 3 decades the U.S. hasn’t even officially recognized Taiwan, which has in some cases limited cultural, academic & business exchange.
I would agree that Taiwanese may be more receptive to U.S. culture (or Japan’s, or whoever), due to their own much-discussed identity crisis (are we Chinese? Or Hakka? Or Yuanjumin? All just plain Taiwanese?). I also don’t think size has anything to do with maintaining cultural identity - Jamaica has done a great job exporting it’s music & culture while keeping its own identity. It’s about how receptive the people are to new ideas, or how bound they are to traditional ones. Taiwanese seem more open. Maybe they like Japanese dramas simply because they’re Japanese?
[quote=“urodacus”]and as for Taiwan “already obviously being a multi-ethnic society” … there are two-three main languages here…[/quote] You said it - Taiwan has multiple languages & large number of people from different backgrounds. Maybe the “casual observer” needs to look harder?
In Taipei alone I’ve heard 3 local languages on every train and always see numerous restaurants offering Chinese/Taiwanese/Hakka food from different “Taiwanese” ethnic groups or regions. In Japan the differences in language, food, etc are far more subtle. Osaka/Kyoto area is noticeably different (to the non-casual observer). Of course their are regional dialects, but they’re nothing close to the difference between Mandarin, Taiwanese, Hoklo, and whatever the aborigines speak.
Japan, for the most part, has never had that diversity. They’re 99.X% Japanese and continue teaching their kids that they’re unique. Hence the problems for ethnic “outsiders” or those who go against the grain in school, work, society… “The nail that sticks up gets hammered down,” and such.
I don’t know Taiwan well enough to know how the various groups mix in school & society. If as you say there’s no difference, then as I stated, Taiwan has dealt with assimilating people of different ethnic backgrounds better than Japan, and I think that’s a good thing.
For a real understanding of these issues, read Spences book, “In Search of Modern China”. I am on my second reading and trying to outline the events but it is truly enlightening. My next step is to sign onto M.I.T.'s free classroom and take the class concerning the “Rice Bowl”. There is truly some great information out there from knowledgeable scholors if one really wants good information.
[quote=“Elegua”]I never knew where a lot of Taiwan’s strange architectural ideas came from until I travelled to Japan.
Taiwan in some superficial ways, struck me as like a Japan under Chinese management.[/quote]
:no-no: OOoohhhoo. I said that very same thing durring my first week in Taiwan and folks did NOT take kindly to my sentament. Nooo boy! :no-no:
sjhuz: OK, i’ll give you a few of those points. Especially the mono-culture part.
lots of American movies here that you don’t get so much exposure to in Japan, and music, and sports. Japan seems more self-sufficient in many of those aspects of its culture. and it is streets ahead in architecture, self respect, national identity, even less iommediately noticeable things like brans penetration onto the national stage, etc. things seen as Chinese are seen as Chinese, not Taiwanese by foreigners, while things japanese are definitely from Japan.
If one has no familiarity with English, it’s quite easy to come to the conclusion that they are separate languages based on the way that American English and British English are labeled in Taiwan. But does it necessarily imply those students are uneducated? Any more so than anywhere else in the world?[/quote]
This is because American colleges and universities and TOEFL crammers like to promote the idea they are two separate languages. As in if you want to study ‘American’ you had better go to America to do it. Conversely the UK does the same thing with it’s Cambridge system…
Marketing preying off ignorance.
I don’t see religion here being influenced at all from Japan. I think it’s all from the mainland communities that migrated and mixed together and evolved as they went e.g. Matsu. Japanese temples hierarchy, simple style and reverent worship methods seem very different than Taiwan’s noisy, messy and boisterous temples and ceremonies. Temples in Taiwan mainly seem to be related to farming and fishing more than a sense of nature worship and ying-yang. Lastly the diversity of religious thinking here must be 10X that of Japan and there has not been to my knowledge any significant repression of any religions here through history.
[quote=“headhonchoII”] Conversely the UK does the same thing with it’s Cambridge system…
Marketing preying off ignorance.[/quote]
That’s completely untrue. What does ‘IELTS’ stand for? I was at a recording session last week, trying to deal with the fact that the ‘Australian female’ actor was sick and so I had an uneven mix of English speaking countries represented.
Cambridge tests are heavily marketed, but certainly not in that way; in fact the opposite is true because they would like a larger slice of the TOEFL pie.
Apparently, [quote=http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=74740]this[/quote] is a modern Japanese religious import.
[quote=“Chris”]Words like “obasan” in Taiwanese
Trains running on the left side
Place names like Kaohsiung and Songshan (Takao and Matsuyama)
Hot springs resorts
Taiwanese karaoke pop (heavily influenced by Japanese oldie pop - wish I knew the terminology)[/quote]
A few words like obasan and ojisan are insignificant.
Modern Mandarin contains an enormous amount (over 5000) of Japanese words, for example,
nutrition 營養, immediate 直接, government 政府, environment 環境, to experience 体驗, special 特別, to imagine想像
Of course the pronunciation is different but sometimes similar.
These are Japanese words created by the Japanese and defined by the Japanese. In most cases the the Chinese did not alter the definition after borrowing them from the Japanese.
Are foreign movies dubbed into Japanese in Japan? What I liked bout Taiwan is that foreign movies are NOT dubbed into Chinese, but instead remain in their original language. However, I once went to see an Italian movie and was totally lost. No english subtitles (they were in Mandarin) and spoken in Italian of course. That was a waste of money.
Yes, both for theatrical and DVD release. I have the Matrix trilogy on Japanese DVDs (most of which are at least E/J). The lip-syncing typically sucks.
Not any more. Went away during Lost Decade I.
Won’t return in Lost Decade II (current).
The chicken biandang (in the round, bamboo (??) container) on HSR is pretty good, but not as good as train bento in Japan.
Really? When was the last time I saw a mainstream HK film in Cantonese while in Taiwan …hmmmmm…hmmmm.
Really? When was the last time I saw a mainstream HK film in Cantonese while in Taiwan …hmmmmm…hmmmm.[/quote]
Could it be that the HK movies are also produced in Mandarin for the Taiwan and Mainland markets??