I got back from the hospital and got everything documented, the doc measured the bruises on both arms and wrote a report.
I actually also learned that this guy owns a buxiban and teach in the school “birds” every other week.
I definitly want to give him a scare so he gets the point. I wouldn’t go so far a sueing.
I can’t see the principal until monday morning, so my idea is:
monday morning I’ll see the principal and explain to him what happened, I’ll bring the doc report.
I’ll ask him to get that guy here so we can have a talk, get him to appologize to my son and pay the 1000$ for the medical report I did today or I’ll file an official report, I’ll try to explain this as calmly as possible, probably will get my wife to come along.
[quote=“igorveni”]I got back from the hospital and got everything documented, the doc measured the bruises on both arms and wrote a report.
I actually also learned that this guy owns a buxiban and teach in the school “birds” every other week.
I definitly want to give him a scare so he gets the point. I wouldn’t go so far a sueing.
I can’t see the principal until monday morning, so my idea is:
monday morning I’ll see the principal and explain to him what happened, I’ll bring the doc report.
I’ll ask him to get that guy here so we can have a talk, get him to appologize to my son and pay the 1000$ for the medical report I did today or I’ll file an official report, I’ll try to explain this as calmly as possible, probably will get my wife to come along.[/quote]
I think there has been some good advice given here. I agree with what jd has posted, though I see nothing wrong with going to the police, either.
I would want the following:
-
Acknowledgement from the guy that he was way out of bounds when he put his hands on your boy… and that the proper recourse to the problem he complained of would have been to either go to the school or to have contacted you directly;
-
A sincere apology from the guy made directly to your son and to his parents;
-
A solomn assurance from the guy that he will never touch (or even look at) your son again;
-
An assurance from the school that they will not permit unknown (or even known) adults to enter the school grounds to physically and or verbally attack your son; and
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Compensation for the cost of having your boy’s injury documented by the MD at the hospital and for your time lost visiting and consulting with the police.
I would remind both the guy and the school that under Taiwan law, such assaults are punishable as a crime, and that the statute of limitations for bringing a claim is one year (not six months).
Does the other father know what he did ? I mean the bruises ? Perhaps he didn’t realised that he put too much pressuire on his harms.
You should ask this father a meeting at the school with the principal, the teacher, your son and you, and take the pictures and papers from the hospital to show him. IMHO, you should tell this person that :
- If he have a problem about what’s happen in the school, he should go to speak with the teacher, that will speak to the parents if needed, and not to come directly in front of a little boy like what his did (and not to come to the house of the parent and break everything like what you were thinking also).
- He should not let his anger talk like what he did.
- He should not talk to young kids as if he was in front of an adult in a bar.
- Some writting on a hand made by a kid to another kid (this may happen often, and it is often like a game for them, not a way to make an offense) is not comparable to what he did.
(optional) - Your son said that it is not him that wrote on the hand of his daughter.
You should ask him :
- to make some public excuse to your son, where he should explain why he should not have done what he did. Ask him to write an excuse letter that will be publicly displayed somewhere in the school (the principal could accept this, probably), this may be displayed in a place where nobody go but at least it might remain in the mind of the other father.
- to do something symbolic that will stand longer than 1 day, so it will not be quickly forgot. Also think about something that could bring friendship between the parents and children (use your imagination … ask them to invit you to a friendly dinner in their home or you will sue him, for example
).
If you acheive all of this, your son will feel safer and will forget this bad event, and this kind of problem will not happen again.
TM, thanks that’s exactly what I intend to do.
I really think some of the suggestions for recourse, except perhaps for Tigerman’s suggestions, are a bit too tame. The guy will most likely not believe that he did anything wrong. If he uses violence like this on someone else’s child, who knows how he deals with discipline problems with his own child. He needs to know that what he did was wrong, and others need to know that this kind of behavior is unacceptable. If I were in the same position, I would either 1) file charges, or 2) demand that the school put on a mandatory meeting/seminar for ALL parents of the school to attend to talk about how violence is not the way to solve problems, and this father should be one of the keynote speakers. He committed a crime when he laid his hands on your son like that, and the school was negligent in allowing that to happen. When a crime has been committed or someone has been wronged, justice needs to be handed out. That is how a civil society is created.
[quote]I really think some of the suggestions for recourse, except perhaps for Tigerman’s suggestions, are a bit too tame.The guy will most likely not believe that he did anything wrong.
He committed a crime when he laid his hands on your son like that, and the school was negligent in allowing that to happen. When a crime has been committed or someone has been wronged, justice needs to be handed out. That is how a civil society is created.[/quote]
I completely agree.
Perhaps my suggestions last night were a little over the top, but this scumbag must be made to understand that what he did to igor’s son was a crime.
If anyone did this to my child, I really don’t think I could stop myself from kicking the prick into the middle of next week.
Yes, yes, I know that violence isn’t the answer to anything, but…
:fume: :fume: :fume:
[quote=“LagerLout”]Perhaps my suggestions last night were a little over the top, but this scumbag must be made to understand that what he did to igor’s son was a crime.
If anyone did this to my child, I really don’t think I could stop myself from kicking the prick into the middle of next week.
Yes, yes, I know that violence isn’t the answer to anything, but…[/quote]
But the point is to teach the parents and the kids that violence isn’t the way to deal with their problems. If someone did this to your kid, and you beat the crap out of that person, then your child would learn to think that that was an acceptable way to deal with his/her problems in the future. There are laws and legal systems for a reason. I believe it was Aristotle that said “the law is reason free from passion.” Law is the basis of any civil society and should be put to use. Part of the problem with a truly civil society taking root here is that people try too often to settle things outside of the legal system instead of letting it do what it was made to do.
LittleBuddha
A very reasonable and passionless argument.
However, this is Taiwan - a far from civil society - here and now, warts and all. While I’d love to believe the school “authorities” and the police would do the right thing and give this guy a serious wake-up call, the reality will almost certainly be a million miles from Aristotle’s oft-quoted ideal.
Passion. Hmmm…
If the shoe were on the other foot, ie. igor had assaulted the other guy’s daughter, can you even begin to imagine the subsequent shit storm?
LittleBuddha,
You have to realize that igorveni’s son will continue to go to this school. Let him make his point and not go too far, I say.
This guy owns a buxiban? Did I read that correctly? He WILL feel the heat if this threatnes to get out…and if it does get out, he will be ruined.
Aren’t we always harping on the Taiwanese being exponentially vengeful? (I give you the finger, you try to run me over. )This is serious enough as it is. Why the desire to make an example out of this guy? Does he deserve this?
Far better, IMVHO to give him a chance to learn…and never let him forget it. I would make him have dinner with me once a week for a year, or I’d sue. Change takes time.
:bravo: Hello Kitty Pawah !!! 
The best way to deal with an ennemy is to convert it to a friend. Maybe in 10 years you will think about now, when this father will say you “Hello” in the street and will ask you some news about your grown son. Of course, this is an eventuality and it may not happen, but remember that we make the world we are living in.
I REALLLLLLLY think you NEED to press charges.
Not just for your own son.
JD: “Does he deserve this?” YES!!! This isn’t vengeful, this is preventitive measures keeping him from abusing other children.
There is such a low chance this the first time this man has done this. And examples need to be made. And I hope it makes it on the news. Because then others will think before they do the same.
You know, sometimes the only reason people don’t do bad things is because they are afraid of getting into trouble. This is sad but true. And therefore, sometimes when people do shitty ass things like bruise up someone else’s kid, they need to face the law.
LittleBuddhaTW wrote:
LagerLout wrote:
[quote]A very reasonable and passionless argument.
However, this is Taiwan - a far from civil society - here and now, warts and all. While I’d love to believe the school “authorities” and the police would do the right thing and give this guy a serious wake-up call, the reality will almost certainly be a million miles from Aristotle’s oft-quoted ideal.[/quote]
SuchAFob wrote:
[quote]I REALLLLLLLY think you NEED to press charges.
Not just for your own son.
JD: “Does he deserve this?” YES!!! This isn’t vengeful, this is preventitive measures keeping him from abusing other children.
There is such a low chance this the first time this man has done this. And examples need to be made. And I hope it makes it on the news. Because then others will think before they do the same.
You know, sometimes the only reason people don’t do bad things is because they are afraid of getting into trouble. This is sad but true. And therefore, sometimes when people do shitty ass things like bruise up someone else’s kid, they need to face the law.[/quote]
I would side with LittleBuddhaTW & SuchAFob here. Taiwanese only seem to get it when they are facing punishment from officials. Otherwise it is just swept under the rug and the cycle of violence continues.
I was once threatened by a truck driver who stood outside a 7-11 with a knife waiting for me to come out (in the middle of central Taipei in broad daylight) and mouthing off loudly about how I insulted him. The manager called the cops and as soon as they showed up he turned into a kitten and was all smiles and handshakes with me as the police drove us to the station. I did not prosecute as I didn
Igor, sorry to hear about that! I hope things will work out.
I wish there were personal liabilities laws (if there are, hope they are logical and enforceable) in Taiwan.
Go to the press. Document everything that has happened so far and if you feel this issue is being brushed under the carpet, contact the press. If someone hit my kid, I wouldn’t let it go, either. I’d make sure that everybody knew what happened. You might not get the apology you are looking for, but the guy and the school would lose face for their behavior or lack of action. Maybe a situation like this could be prevented in the future.
FYI:
In Taiwan, Chapter 23, Article 277 of the Criminal Code / Offenses of Causing Bodily Harm stipulates “a person who injures the body or health of another shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years, detention, or a fine of not more than 1000 yuan”. The statute of limitations for bringing such a claim is one year.
“a fine of not more than 1000 yuan”??? That doesn’t sound like a very stiff penalty …
Tigerman, do you think charges should be filed in a case like this? Do you think the guy would actually do time for this?
[quote=“LittleBuddhaTW”]“a fine of not more than 1000 yuan”??? That doesn’t sound like a very stiff penalty …
Tigerman, do you think charges should be filed in a case like this? Do you think the guy would actually do time for this?[/quote]
If the guy does not demonstrate sincere remorse and indicate a realization that what he did was wrong, regardless of whether or not the boy wrote on his girl’s hand, then I would consider filing charges just to make him understand how serious the matter really is.
I doubt that the guy would be indicted (sent to stand trial) by the Taiwan Prosecutor, and even if he were, I do not believe he would be convicted. And, even if he were convicted, I believe that the Court would impose only the fine as punishment.
What I think would most likely happen is that the police would attempt to get the parties to settle (this will likely involve some cash transfer to the plaintiff). If they do not succeed, the Prosecutor will likely attempt to get the parties to settle (again for a cash transfer). If no settlement is reached, the Prosecutor could indict the guy. In such case, the Court will then likely attempt to get the two parties to settle (this is called a judicially assisted settlement and no judgment is rendered where a settlement is reached). If the guy demonstrates regret but a settlement is not reached, and if the Court finds him guilty, it will likely impose only a fine.
1 “yuan” in the penal code is not the same as 1 NT. I forget what the current conversion rate is.
1 “yuan” in the penal code is not the same as 1 NT. I forget what the current conversion rate is.[/quote]
1 Yuan : 3 NT$
Thus, the maximum fine is NT$ 3,000.
This is how I feel too. Give the guy a chance to realize how serious this is, before too many toes get stepped on and some irreversible damnage is done or face is lost.
However, it must still be said, if it were my kid, I’d be mored than pissed.