Hi. I’ve been in Taiwan for 5 years and when I first arrived I thought my classes at ShiDa were great. As a total novice, I had to study like mad to keep up and I was learning quickly. But 3 months later I found full-time employment and that was the end of my lessons. I’m still working FT and don’t feel I’ve got the time to take a class after work, but I’ve finally decided it’s time to resume my learning. What’s the best method?
At one point I vowed that next time I began lessons I would work only on speaking and listening, because I’ll never read and write much anyway, so this way I’ll have more time to spend on oral conversations. I’m no longer sure that’s feasible, because if I don’t take lessons I would likely try to work solo through my Practical AV Chinese text.
On the other hand, I saw someone recommended the Pimsleur tapes, which are very expensive, but I like the idea of listening to tapes (repeatedly) and speaking along.
On the third hand, Miltown’s talk about flash cards sounds good too.
What would you recommend for someone in my situation? I’m thinking maybe at most I could take one class on a weeknight and one on a weekend, but that’s pushing it. Otherwise, I plan to try to study on my own.
I’m with the others - mix media as much as is viable for you, but with a bias toward how you learn best. Personally I’m more of a visual learner, so flashcards and books work better for me than tapes/CDs/MP3s.
Some don’t like the Pimsleur tapes, but they work on the basis of intergrated memory recall. That is they review often, based on studies of how we remember and are designed to get the language into long term memory.
Generally they introduce some vocab. interlaced with conversations. Sometimes you listen to the conversation, but often you need to respond to and ask questions. They use a bit of English to guide you. That is he tells you a word or two, you listen to native speaker and copy. you get asked a question and respond. you move on and then the English voice will ask you how to say something you learnt a minute ago, two minutes ago or perhaps last lesson. I have just started with them , in a hope that my grammar will improve.
I hope this gives you an idea as to whether you would like them before you go and fork over your hard earned cash. (each lesson takes about 30 minutes)
I use flashcards that I make up myself. Some have one character on them, and others have two or more (as a combination means something different from a single character on it’s own). However, I’ve hit a snag in that a character means something different when combined with another one. So it’s all good doing this but it can get a little messy. I find flashcards work well for me, except for this little problem. Kinda like “hope” and “hop” in English.
Don’t over-simplify your definitions. Use a character dictionary to help you define your characters.
Some of the best flashcards for characters I’ve seen were a set of 1000 basic Chinese characters from the Chinese University of Hong Kong. I loved them. I wish they had the same thing for all characters you’re likely to learn.
They had a character on one side (including the radical in a separate color, numbered strokes, simplified, alternate and calligraphy versions in the corners) with multiple definitions and examples of the character in fairly common words.
Thanks. I probably will use all of the above combined and, I will likely find the time and motivation to take classes twice a week after work – pain in the ass, but I’ve finally reached the point where it’s time to start learning again.
One other question: would it be reasonable to forget about bo po mo fo and only use pinyin? In my 3 months at ShiDa I began learning BPMF, but I would think pinyin would be a lot easier for reading and writing and I want to spend my study time as efficiently as possible.
Yeah, go to pinyin. The best dictionaries use it (e.g., DeFrancis ABC Comprehensive), it’s more widely used in web resources, and it’s certainly easier to type; you don’t need a special keyboard either. I’m sure there have been lengthy debates on the superiority of one or the other elsewhere; probly better not to start one off-topic here. Anyway, yes.
MT wrote[quote]would it be reasonable to forget about bo po mo fo and only use pinyin? In my 3 months at Shi-Da I began learning BPMF, but I would think pinyin would be a lot easier for reading and writing .[/quote]
I’m a big fan of pinyin. It has been a good crutch for a long time. Now I am slowly weening off of it, but I still use it a lot.
if your living in Taiwan then don’t forget bpmf. It is really helpful to get correct pronunciations from locals, especially ch/c sh/s zh/z r/l, but you don’t necessarily need to be able to write it for this, just recognise.
If you ever leave Taiwan it can be really hard to come across bpmf books etc. so pinyin is pretty helpful in that regard.
If you want to learn pinyin spend some time at it. It will be an investment.
Remember that pinyin is not English any more than bpmf is English. It is just that you can already write and recognise all the symbols of pinyin, but that doesn’t mean you know the sound they represent in Chinese.
I have come across many foreigners who figure they don’t need to LEARN pinyin, they read it like English and then continue to make lots of simple pronunciation errors, that can create bad habits that can take years to bash out later.
MJB: I strongly recommend you switch to pinyin. You probably read enough bo po mo fo already.
You should do some practice listening to your tapes and writing down what you hear in pinyin. This is an important skill that is often neglected. How can you say things if you can’t hear them accurately?
Does anyone know if there is an all-pinyin (no characters) textbook from Taiwan with tapes? I’ve been looking for one for some time. I don’t want one from China–I think they confuse beginners because of the vocabulary and usage frequency differences.
Feiren wrote[quote]I strongly recommend you switch to pinyin. You probably read enough bo po mo fo already[/quote]
Interesting Why do you say this? is pinyin better? Can one read too much bpmf?
Living in Taiwan I personally prefer bpmf (mps). It also makes me feel like it’s sorta Chinese already. I do use pinyin now and again (as it is a useful crutch), but most children’s books here use mps so I find it more useful in that regard.
Well, if you’re in Taiwan and you’re using kid’s books as supplementary study aides (for reading and building vocabulary) then they can be useful. But, like you, I know loads of folks who don’t know or intend to learn the mps symbols and seem to get along fine without it.
Also, for me, sometimes in my classes, I use the symbols when I need to write a chinese word on the board for the kids to help them understand the meaning of an English word. They all know mps, and the smaller kids don’t always know the Chinese character, so I have found the mps system useful in this regard too.
Pimsleur is a good series, but it’s best for beginners I think. If you need help with tones, look no further. Also, the vocab is limited, but it gives a solid foundation in the grammar.
Pimsleur is incredibly expensive, but it’s also available on the BitTorrent network eg http://www.TorrentSpy.com
Motivation is key and it’s great if you can find a fun way to learn, for example with TW friends or a language exchange partner you really click with (or BF/GF of course).
Because you’re busy, flashcards are an excellent way to make use of all the 5 minutes when you’re hanging around waiting in a queue, on public transport, meeting someone, on the bog, etc etc. I have an excellent little flashcard app for Palm that does the job, but everyone learns in different ways and prefers different methods.
I like to hear how everyone else learns, and I’ve tried most things at least once.
You can try free online demos (only four languages available for the demos, not Mandarin, but you can get an idea of the method anyway). There are short Flash demos, and longer ones which require a download.
I’ve posted this at other Chinese forums but since it applies to this thread as well I’m reposting it here:
I use a word processing program to make sheets of characters to study, usually about 10 characters per sheet. I include copious notes about the characters to help me remember them. Usually etymological stuff gleaned from books and web sites. A good web site for such stuff would be zhongwen.com/
Sometimes I just make up something about a character to use as a mnemonic to remember how it
Why do you say this? is pinyin better? Can one read too much bpmf?