What's the composition of the expatriate community in taipei

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

i’m pretty framiliar with taiwan seeing as how i was born there and still have lots of family there, but i was curious about what the foreign community there is like. since i’m always with my family when i go back to visit, i never see any foreigners there. sure, a mormon missionary here or there and the random businessman, but hardly any at all.

what are some of the more foreigner-infested areas? are most of the foreigners american? aussie? european?

are there a lot of taiwanese americans who go back and do they hang out with the other foreigners? what about people from other asian countries?

sorry, there are some pretty newbie questions, but since i plan on moving there next year, i thought i’d start doing some research.

2

i’m pretty framiliar with taiwan seeing as how i was born there and still have lots of family there, but i was curious about what the foreign community there is like. since i’m always with my family when i go back to visit, i never see any foreigners there. sure, a mormon missionary here or there and the random businessman, but hardly any at all.
what are some of the more foreigner-infested areas? are most of the foreigners american? aussie? european?

are there a lot of taiwanese americans who go back and do they hang out with the other foreigners? what about people from other asian countries?

Taipei in general

Shr Da and Gung Gwang( Taiwan University), there are a lot of foreign students studying Chinese

Tien Mu - expat area

It is a good mixture of all nationalities, Euopeans, Russsians, Africans, South Americans etc etc, but I think Canadians and Americans hold the majority, and the foreign population is pretty scattered throughout Taipei. Ma Eng Joou hasn’t pushed us into the ghettos yet!!!

Infested is not the word I would use, but you always see some around the place , whether it be a group(two to three) or somebofy you just meet in the supermarket or on their motobike. Also on the weekends they tend to congregate in and around Roxy 99 at night.

I must say that in Taiwan, most foreigners are snobby, everytime you pass a foreigner, most do everything but cross over to the other side of the street, to avoid eye contact or say hello. Well this is what I think, maybe I have a sign on my forehead sometimes.

Other foreigners, and I know a few, reject interacting with foreigners in Taipei. Its not that they go native, but it is that they feel that they have to do their own thing, or what every other people they is not their thing.

In most other cities foreigners are there as in the countryside…in general though the population would be lower…although I think they are trying to set up the Canadian Taiwan Republic in Chung Li Taoyuan…cause there are so many Canadians in Chung Li.

ABCs usually sort of hang out together, but I think if you are Taiwanese American or ABC, you would have to share time between your Taiwanese family and their culture and western friends and culture.

Thais, Philipinos etc tend to come to Taiwan to make money and send as much home. Anyway most of these poor guys are slaves, they are not allowed out, maybe only on Sunday, and wouldn’t really interact with foreigners.

There is a Thai bar on Nangkang Road Section 2, a bit of a rough spot though on a Sunday night, if you want tomeet some Thais

3

are most of the foreigners american? aussie? european?

The Directorate-General of Budget, Accounting, and Statistics just released some figures on this.

Of the 336,000 foreign residents in Taiwan at the end of 2000, 41.7 percent were from Thailand, 22.3 percent from the Philippines, 7.1 percent from Vietnam, 3.4 percent from Japan, and 2.8 percent from the United States.

Although those figures leave out more than 20 percent of Taiwan’s foreign population, I think it’s safe to say that U.S. citizens outnumber Canadians and perhaps also even all the Europeans put together.

4
quote:
Originally posted by cranky laowai: I think it's safe to say that U.S. citizens outnumber Canadians and perhaps also even all the Europeans put together.
I agree, but somehow I get the feeling that although America's population is almost ten times that of Canada, there are not nearly ten times as many Americans here as there are Canucks. I wonder why... Is it just the economy or are their other factors?
5
quote:
Of the 336,000 foreign residents in Taiwan at the end of 2000, 41.7 percent were from Thailand, 22.3 percent from the Philippines, 7.1 percent from Vietnam, 3.4 percent from Japan, and 2.8 percent from the United States.

This is interesting. This explains why there were so many Thai restaurants. Are there many foreign domestics (household servants) in Taiwan?

This also means the “white” foreign community in Taiwan is not much more than about 17,000. That is quite small, even smaller than the equivalent “foreign” community in Hong Kong. I would have imagined that Taiwan would need more English teachers than that.

[img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]        [img]images/smiles/converted/Taiwan.gif[/img]      [img]images/smiles/converted/cc_clankiller.gif[/img]    [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]
6
quote:
Originally posted by zhukov: I must say that in Taiwan, most foreigners are snobby, everytime you pass a foreigner, most do everything but cross over to the other side of the street, to avoid eye contact or say hello. Well this is what I think, maybe I have a sign on my forehead sometimes.

Other foreigners, and I know a few, reject interacting with foreigners in Taipei. Its not that they go native, but it is that they feel that they have to do their own thing, or what every other people they is not their thing.

I thought this was quite a funny comment.

Do you really mean that foreigners in Taiwan should say hello and interact with complete strangers just because they are non-Chinese? Would you say hello to a complete stranger that came walking down the street in your home country (I know places where that would get you into a lot of trouble)? I, and most people I know, never do that anywhere in the world unless there is a reason to interact, so why should I do so in Taiwan? Because it’s different? Or should I feel special affinity to other foreigners just because they are not Chinese? That’s awfully close to …

I’m happy to interact with strangers when it’s natural, be they Chinese or foreigners, but I guess that most of us “snobby” foreigners wont just start talking to someone because we can see that they are not Taiwanese.

Anyway, I’m a bit curious to hear an explanation.

7

When the Taiwanese look at you like the latest attraction in a museum and your Mandarin is not good enough to keep up with native conversation, especially if it’s in Taiwanese, sometimes it’s nice to see someone who might be in the same boat as you and to get to use your English with someone who can actually speak it. Being not only a foreigner, but a black foreigner, I have had only two Taiwanese strangers approach me and it was to ask about my hair. Sometimes I am just interested in finding out where they are from. I have met one person who lived nearby my Midwestern hometown, one who grew up in my small college town, a family who lived in the same region of France where I lived while I finished my degree in French, and one who was from Lithuania. If I say hello and strike up a conversation, it’s not to be snobby or annoying or exclusive in talking only to foreigners and not the locals, but just curious and friendly. And if you ask me, I think there are a quite number of Canadians here. How old is that study?

8

This topic has gotten off track from the original posting by Flipper, and I encourage all of you to try to stay on the topic. However, I would also like to comment on some of the topics in this thread.

It is very interesting that someone has brought up conversation about snobby foreigners. I’m not sure if I can agree or disagree with this statement, but I can say that in every city I have visited or lived in Taiwan, the phenomenon of foreigners ignoring other foreigners(strangers?) has been quite common. So one may ask why is this? Has there been any research done in any country about this occurence? Can anyone point us to a webpage or a source?

Going back to Flipper’s question, can someone else give us more ideas?

9

snobby foreigners: this happens in paris, tokyo and taipei, everywhere actually. Mostly americans do this seems. Some kind of cultural thing.

10

In my experience many or most travellers in South-East Asian countries do say Hi to other foreigners they meet, just because they’re foreigners. But in those countries 99% are tourists or travellers, so have a similar purpose there, can’t speak the local labguage and could be doing the same tours, staying at the same places and can swap info and stuff. Also it’s nice to talk to someone who isn’t trying tosell you something or scam you.

In Taiwan the tourists are in the minority. You realise that, yeah, it is a bit funny to say Hi to someone just because he’s the same colour as you, and you can start talking to other people as well.

Bri

11

yeah, but as long as i’ve been here, it seems that when passing on the street, most foreigners look the other way from each other. must be a taipei habit, that sort of big city life complex…

i don’t mind saying hello on the streets, even to mormons, but the thing that irks me most when MEETING another foreigner, is the usual barage of questions.

where are you from?
how long have you been here?
what do you do?
can you speak chinese?

it’s just so, NOSY! if i wanted to divulge the complete unabridged history of Alien in Taiwan in my first meeting, i’d write a book called, “Alien Like Me” and sell it at Eslite. (no offense to Paul Lejoy)

incidentally, one of my closest friends here and i didn’t even realise we’d gone to the same high school until we’d known each other at least 6 months. then it turned out to be an amusing coincidence.

12

I ignore foreigners in all major, international cities, mostly because I don’t have any way of discerning them from the general population of residents. In Taiwan, the distinction becomes racial, not national/cultural, and since racial differences aren’t an area of huge importance to me, I just treat a white/black/brown non-acquaintance the same way I treat a Taiwanese non-acquaintance. In other words, I don’t interact with them at all unless there is cause for me to do so.

When I lived in Chiayi County, however, I would stare whenever I saw a foreigner, just because there were only a few non-Taiwanese there at the time, and anyone from the outside was a rare sight indeed. In Taipei, I run into so many foreigners (read: non-Oriental people of various races), that I could never be bothered to pay attention to them all.

Kinda reminds me of when I first got here, and as a long time motorcyclist in North America, persisted with the one hand wave/salute with which all motorcyclists (except Harley riders, of course) greet each other. Didn’t take me very long to figure out that not only would my comradely salute go unnoticed, it would also occupy every minute of my driving time.

13

i don’t think it’s a racial issue to greet other non-asians in a place where there are so few of us. but it’s funny when the germans get so excited meeting one another, and those silly canadians… that would be more akin to nationalistic pride, rather, right?
i reckon asians always do it wherever there are few of them, so what’s the biggie?

it’s not particularly international in taipei anyway, whatcha on about? this ain’t no hong kong or singapore. if it were, i’d be able to buy light ash blonde hair colour at watsons.

in a relatively ‘closed society’ such as taiwan, you’ll always be unique here, and a minor celebrity in your own neighbourhood. it doesn’t mean all of us celebrities would like each other, just that we’re all sort of in the same boat.

14

Isn’t it possible that the report that shows 2.8% of the 336,000 foreign residents in Taiwan are American never took into account the ethnicity of those Americans?

15

I am a white Canadian guy. We are a dime a dozen here. I will talk to foreigners in a bar. Likewise Taiwanese people. Bars are for socializing. I like people. I will talk to a foreigner if he/she sits next to me on a bus or train, depending on my mood (conversational or otherwise). Likewise a Taiwanese. I would do the same at home. As for saying hi to every non-chinese face I pass on the street, forget it. Not interested. Just because we have a common skin colour doesn’t mean we have anything meaningful in common beyond that. If anything, more white faces detract from the cachet I have come to enjoy here as a minority, so while I respect everyone’s right to be here, I mildly resent seeing so many foreigners for my own purely selfish reasons.

16

hi, i’ve been for a leetle bit and the deliberate way we avoid each other i find fully wierd. it’s because some people seem to go to a lot of effort to avoid looking at you that it looks uncomfortable.
i tend (but not always)to say hi to people but thats because half the time other people seem like they’re are decent and it’s a lot less effort than deliberatly looking at the ground, paper or whatever.
i’m a forienger in a foriegn land and half the fun of being here and doing this is the people i meet and that’s often from bizarre circumstances and i’ve also met a lot of very cool people waiting in line, and doing other pretty mundane everyday stuff. back home you always have a chat with others around you and i find the i miss the variety of people you intereact with in these ways.
i agree that if you can’t be shagged saying hi don’t but if you feel like saying howzit do , it makes being here more fun on a daily basis.
cheers.

17

I’m not trying to be mean or picky, but could we watch the grammar, capitalization, and spelling a little? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese? I beg you. Thanks!

jeff@oriented.org
http://taiwanstuff.tripod.com

18

When I first lived here in 1993 (Mocerators, take note: Ink has already dessicated in my original Passport–THREE passports ago) there were so few foreigners that we were overjoyed at the sight of someone new. Instant frienships were formed in a matter of seconds.“You from Australia? Man, my great grandfather’s middle name is Darwin. Cool!”
I have formed such a diverse group of friends in Taiwan and it has really opened my eyes to the value of frienship and to the realization that we don’t all have to be “mod” or “rock” (gee, does that date me, or what) to share things in common. What I’m talking about is the universality, commonality, sameness, (blandness? if you will), nature of the human experience. There is always something that you have in common with the person you meet on the street–regardless of gender, nationality or place of birth. When I meet a “westerner” I know for sure that we have at least two things in common–one, being from the “west” and two, a fellow human being. Therefore, there is common ground and an opportunity, if not for companionship, then for at least, a conversation that might turn out to be pleasant, or better yet, lead to a lasting friendship. Back at home most of my friends still remain un-diverse. They still play “burbie” (does that place me, or what) with the same group of people that they have been playing with for the last 15 years and still talk about the girls they almost had in high school and their plans for next weekend (the same as they were 10 years ago). Here, my friends are like a mini UN–diverse, interesting(to say the least) interested in so many different ways to live and to perceive life, “character-ful,” etc. So, the next time someone says hi to you on the street or elsewhere, say “Hi” in return. He/She might just be the one to have your back when some loco local wants to smash a beer bottle over your head…peace!

19

Have to agree. What I love from Taiwan is that I can sit at a bar with 10 Westerners, and be the only American. Or the only person in hi-tech, or the only person that has sexual fantasies over farm animals (that one doesn’t count)- but we still are friends, learn from one another, and actually have fun. Some Western countries you have challenges with, but it is more a result of non-English. Germany, France, Russia- they tend to stay together because English is not their common language. Since they are living in Taiwan, makes sense. They do need a comfort zone, especially when they are out together. But I doubt that they ever mean or want to be considered outside the ex-pat community, or rude for that matter.

20

According to a recent study done by the Foreign Affairs Police and the Foreign Ministry, the Foreign Community in Taiwan is composed of the following:

96.2% “organic elements” present in many different forms; DNA, RNA proteins, lipids and sugars. Also, Water (H2O) and carbon dioxide (CO2)as well as other small molecules involve these elements. To wit:

Oxygen (65.0%)
Carbon (18.5%)
Hydrogen (9.5%)
Nitrogen (3.2%)

3.9% of the composition of Foreign Community members comes from elements present in the form of salts.

Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.4%)
Sulfur (0.3%)
Sodium (0.2% )
Chlorine (0.2%)
Magnesium (0.1%)
Iodine (0.1%)
Iron (0.1%)

The trace elements that compose less than 0.5% of Foreign Community members include, Chromium, Cobalt, Copper, Fluorine, Manganese, Molybdenum, Selenium, Tin, Vanadium, Zinc, and yes