Whats the deal with the Name Changes?

I personally think its not Chinas business what Taiwan wants to call its state enterprises. IN fact I think China should long have been protesting that Taiwan is using its good name on its state enterprises.

Like why was Chinese Petroleum Corp ever called that? its not in China, but saying its Chinese is allowable. Still if i was China I wouldve long protested that.

China Shipbuilding Corporation. I wouldve long protested that name as its a name China should be able to name one of its own corporations.

China Airlines. Now this is the real joke. Its been an airline that had never been allowed in China or to overfly its airspace and yet its stolen the name China from China. NOw its allowed to overfly Chinese airspace . And now its allowed charter flights on special occasions.

And the wierd thing is that China actually is expected to strongly protest these name changes?

I really dont think China is smart to play into the hands of the TI people on this.

Their attitude should be "hey you can call your companies any name you want, as long as you dont use China in it as you are not China, we are "

China Airlines should be renamed Formosa Airlines (partly because CAL already owns Formosa Airlines, which it absorbed already, and EVA owns Taiwan Airlines, which IT had absorbed in the past).

CPC should be name Taiwan Petroleum Corporation and barring that CPC Taiwan Corporation, where the CPC no longer stands for “chinese petroleum corporation” . Just like IBM no longer stands for International Business Machines, its simply IBM. So CPC can become CPC TAIWAN CORPORATION.

and China Shipbuilding Corporation (CSBC) can likewise be called CSBC Taiwan Corporation (where CSBC no longer means anything) or better yet TAIWAN SHIPBUILDING CORPORATION.

the USA is concerned that China may protest strongly. And China is expected to seeth at the mouth.

but i find it odd indeed that a travesty in the first place (mis use of the name CHINA) should now be protested by the one whos name was falsely used when the original “name robbers” want to change to something more appropriate.

Now TAipei can have a CHINA HOTEL and Peking can have a TAIPEI HOTEL if they want to really.

So basically I think that name changing is no big deal and shouldnt be made into one.

its not like changing the name of the REPUBLIC OF CHINA . now THAT is a bit different.

Now these are state owned enterprises. The other way to change their name is to privatize them totally. And then of course, private companies can name themselves whatever they want

what say you?

And why is that different? If you already have the perspective that Taiwan isn’t “China”, why is changing the name to something like ROT a problem at all (other than the unfortunate acronym :smiley: )?

A-Bian creating his…legacy.

And why is that different? If you already have the perspective that Taiwan isn’t “China”, why is changing the name to something like ROT a problem at all (other than the unfortunate acronym :smiley: )?[/quote]

China Shipbuilding Corporation builds its ships in Taiwan and has no facilities in China and never has. its owned by the government of the ROC on Taiwan.

ITs a company, not a country.

Chinese Petroleum Corporation likewise is a company, owned by the government of the ROC on Taiwan and has facilities on Taiwan and NONE in China. Its not a country.

China Airlines is owned by a private corporation that is in turn owned by the Government of the ROC on Taiwan. It is technically a private company but is actually majority owned by the government of the ROC on Taiwan. But it is a company , not a country.

ROC is a government of the People of Taiwan and no longer has any jurisdiction or representation from China and hasnt for many decades. It no longer is a government of China. It is a government of Taiwan and actually no longer has 100pct of the vote either in Taiwan.

Taiwan is and has been de facto independent from China for over fifty years. And chinas claim to the island remains contested EVEN before KMT arrived on these shores.

The KMT shouldve declared TAiwan independent the moment they set foot on Taiwan and then Taiwan wouldve been recognized by the vast majority of the worlds nations and China itself wouldve gotten used to it by now.

but alas that didnt happen.

The KMT and the CCP carried on their games. They have been bitter enemies from day one. But are actually related to each other both by the blood in their veins as well as the bloodshed on the battlefield.

notice how CKS and MAO had wives from the same family. So in fact they both claim ALL OF CHINA. However it took decades for the KMT to concede that they really are not in control of ALL OF CHINA and only of TAIWAN. and later to concede complete control of Taiwan as well.

Taiwan IS and has BEEN independent geographically and politically from China. They are really two countries with two systems. However, the “greater China” philosophy holds great promise for China, HOng Kong, Macau, and hopefully taiwan too.

Taiwan has made vast investments in China and has over a million of its own citizens living in China. so the ties that bind are there and are strong.

I think that the “one country- two systems” format COULD well work, If all parties keep a level head. China itself is changing. its gone from COMMUNIST to SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC. And that was what Taiwan and the KMT was. Social Democratic. Taiwan is now Democratic and China is Social Democratic, and soon China could become Democratic too.

me thinks and hopes all parties keep a level head. Taiwan is Taiwan its true, but TAiwan doesnt have to dig a hole and keep its head in the sand. China exists and is a prowerful force both to be reckoned with and to work with.

I wish that China was the size of Taiwan and then the two sides can just have a go at each other and settle this thing . But alas , we must avoid that . And let the two sides peoples understand each other better with vastly improved travel between the two sides and also with Chinas growing betterment of life of its citizens.

Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese , yes for the most part. But Taiwanese have evolved differently . TWo family members that should work together but definitely should not be conjoined at the hips.

The only good change is the Taiwan Post change. CPC Corporation, Taiwan is a ridiculous name. What do the letters stand for? China Petroleum Corporation Corporation, Taiwan. Give me a break. The hoi polloi shouldn’t stand for it. :wink:

Yeah, what Maoman said.

tommy525, I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were objecting to a change to ROT. Now it appears you are just stating it is different (i.e., a bigger deal) because changing the name of a whole country is inherently a bigger deal than changing the name of a company – but you don’t object, right?

Anyway, it appears you’re preaching to the converted here, so I’ll bow out of this one.

While I am not against the name changes in principle, I think it is a huge waste of time and energy. It will take many years before the new names become standardized within these organizations (based on watching these name change initiatives in action within government here).

I am quite sure that a Forumosan entering a HQ of one of these organizations in five years would continue to see placards with the old name hanging from the walls, old names and logos etc. still being used on stationary (letterhead, cups, etc.) Furthermore, I am sure most of the websites for the above-mentioned organizations will have plenty of pages using both names. Nobody will bother coordinating with one another for the changes.

In other words, I don’t think the political appointments or bureaucrats will be sucessful in implementing the name changes–they are just adding new names to old names to create a messy, stinky casserole.

[quote=“Dragonbones”]Yeah, what Maoman said.

tommy525, I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were objecting to a change to ROT. Now it appears you are just stating it is different (i.e., a bigger deal) because changing the name of a whole country is inherently a bigger deal than changing the name of a company – but you don’t object, right?

Anyway, it appears you’re preaching to the converted here, so I’ll bow out of this one.[/quote]

I believe Taiwan has been de facto independent from China for decades and that most people in Taiwan consider themselves Taiwanese first and Chinese second. Taiwan should be allowed to be recognized worldwide as being its own entity formally , rather then just informally as it is now.

HOwever, I dont think that China and Taiwan should become enemies. There is much to be gained by working with each other as either Two countries, Two systems or ONe country , two systems. The one country being “greater China” , rather then CCP’s version of “China”

Basically TAiwan should be considered as being part of the Chinese family but is an individual within that family.

Taiwan has a lot to gain from further workings with China. And I think that many people on both sides of the straits are beginning to see this.

and yes, we ARE on the same team here Dragonbones :slight_smile:

[quote=“JAS”]While I am not against the name changes in principle, I think it is a huge waste of time and energy. It will take many years before the new names become standardized within these organizations (based on watching these name change initiatives in action within government here).

In other words, I don’t think the political appointments or bureaucrats will be sucessful in implementing the name changes–they are just adding new names to old names to create a messy, stinky casserole.[/quote]

yes, but what do you THINK?

of course it’s a good idea to get rid of the name China from all industries and organisations in taiwan. this island has never been a part of the country that is now known as China. and if you acknowledge that the name change will take a long time, why not do it as soon as possible?

as for this “Chinese taipei” shit, what a craven badge of dishonour. and now i see that it is being used in golf too: since when is golf an olympic sport? the IOC may have been pressured into ensuring that tiawan gets fucked in the ear by China again, but there are no official links with the PGA and china.

just the fact that golf 's next growth market is china?

Yeah but pragmatically speaking “China” in Chinese encompasses words such as “middle” and “Chinese”
So it is not as simple as remove “China” in English.

In addition it seems these name changes are not complete and some organization will go under two names for a while. Which I think will just add more to the confusion instead of lessening it.

Ma Ying-jeou just said he would change the names back if he wins the election.

Thank you Ma. I’m thinking you really aren’t the politician I used to think you were.

Hahaha, all of you have got it wrong. Chen Shui Bian didn’t really change the names for the reasons you want them changed, namely convenience, disambiguity, morality, etc. He did it so a bunch of deep greens can get high and feel like the “Republic of Taiwan” is here on Earth already. And you can be sure Chen Shui Bian isn’t giving one iota of thought to your reasons even if you voice them.

I agree with that, though I think he also would personally like to see it just because of the common sense pleasingness of it.

Unsurprisingly to me, Annette Lu looks shrewd on this issue. A while back she modified the uniforms (golf jackets) of her bodyguards such that their flag-coded insignia or whatever on their breasts reads “Taiwan” rather than R.O.C. That’s :sunglasses:

And they are light mint green too. I love Annette and all her OBS style.

Tell me, what does the C in ROC stand for?

You’re speaking from one political perspective. From another, Taiwan is a province of China. So the China Shipbuilding Corporation does build its ships in China: Taiwan, China.

Tell me, what does the C in ROC stand for?
You’re speaking from one political perspective. From another, Taiwan is a province of China. So the China Shipbuilding Corporation does build its ships in China: Taiwan, China.[/quote] Wow, a startling revelation. Now, back to the Plants and Animals forum with you…

Tell me, what does the C in ROC stand for?
You’re speaking from one political perspective. From another, Taiwan is a province of China. So the China Shipbuilding Corporation does build its ships in China: Taiwan, China.[/quote] Wow, a startling revelation.[/quote]

You’d think it’d be obvious, but some people need to have it spelled out for them.

A couple problems with this thread:

    • tommy, how exactly is China “playing into the hands of the TI people on this”? You seem to suggest Beijing has over-reacted some how.

I haven’t heard any missiles landing in Taipei. No sanctions, no generals thumping on tables. Beijing remains low-key on this issue. Beijing seems to be sticking to the same strategy it committed to a few years ago: let the pan-Blues deal with this whole idiotic campaign.

    • dearpeter, pray tell, what makes Ma a poor politician for promising to reverse these name changes… but makes Chen not a poor politician for making these name changes in the first place? In this case, two wasteful wrongs just may make a right.

In my perspective, anything that Taiwan does to make itself economically irrelevant is a win for Beijing. The running joke continues to be Chen Shui-bian’s working hard to earn the title of Communist Party Provincial Secretary - Taiwan Province.

[quote=“cctang”]
2) - dearpeter, pray tell, what makes Ma a poor politician for promising to reverse these name changes… but makes Chen not a poor politician for making these name changes in the first place? In this case, two wasteful wrongs just may make a right.

In my perspective, anything that Taiwan does to make itself economically irrelevant is a win for Beijing. The running joke continues to be Chen Shui-bian’s working hard to earn the title of Communist Party Provincial Secretary - Taiwan Province.[/quote]
I don’t get that joke either. You’re being to brief tonight for me.

I just think Ma would be better to play it like Beijing is, that is, low-key silence. So I’m glad he overreacted. I think it will lose him a bit of support.

The one big risk I see is China refusing to deliver mail using the new stamps. I hope that doesn’t happen, and I think the DPP is taking a big risk there, but otherwise I think this is a good political move for the DPP. I’m just offering my opinions on the electioneering side of it. If it "wastes"some money, who cares. There really is no such thing as a waste of money. Money doesn’t really exists. It’s just a symbol of barter that flows round in circles. Unless they hired mainland lawyers to do the paperwork, the costs don’t really matter from the point of view of Taiwan’s financial health. Maybe some Thai laborers will make off with some forex for changing the signs…

dearpeter,

Some on the mainland joke that CSB is working hard at becoming the CCP’s Taiwan Party Secretary, because so many of his actions seem so bizarrely counter-productive for Taiwan’s interests. It’s just assumed he’s working on behalf of Beijing.

Well, yes, you can say that this isn’t a waste of “money”, in the sense that there’s no currency being destroyed. It’s still sitting there, just redistributed into the hands of some printing supply company.

It’s probably more accurate to describe this as a waste of wealth, and a squandering of capital. Capital has this amazing ability to create more of itself, if you put it to work productively. Buying new equipment, training your workers, building a new port… these are productive uses of capital. It allows a company to be more efficient, to make more/better/faster “product”… leading to the creation of even more wealth, which can then be either consumed or re-invested.

The reprinting of business cards with the new title is not a productive use of capital.

Tell me, what does the C in ROC stand for?

You’re speaking from one political perspective. From another, Taiwan is a province of China. So the China Shipbuilding Corporation does build its ships in China: Taiwan, China.[/quote]

many Taiwanese are ok with being part of “China” just that nobody wants to be part of the China that is controlled by the CCP.

For that reason there is more and more interest in moving away from “china” entirely, because the idea that the KMT’s R.O.C will ever once again control all of China is more and more remote.

And there seems no room in todays world for two Chinas like in the past. Hence the renewed enthusiasm in many to differentiate Taiwan from China.