Or something like that. I was reading Gao’s thread about the merits of an MBA and Chewy’s comments about doing a PhD for the pleasure of learing. I’m having a wild time at the moment being a full time everything. I’ve got two semesters left of my MAT. I’ve been thinking of–someday–doing the PhD, too, but I worry about what it might do to my carrear. In fact, I was advised to think carefully about this program of study, too, because the MA would only make it that much harder to be hired for anything outside of education, and some districts might not consider an MA who will cost a couple thousand more a year than a BA holder.
I’m also not particularly interested in professorships that require a lot of reasearch and publishing. That makes any further education a bit redundant for teaching unless it’s in order to specialize.
However, like Chewy, I believe I might enjoy more focussed study in an area that interests me. I doubt it would be in education.
So, other than for the pleasure of learning, or wanting to teach at a good University, why attain a terminal degree? Do you have a one? Whatever your education level, are you using it? Was/Is it worth it? Please share.
I don’t agree that there is such a thing as level of education. I believe this is a misguided approach to understanding someone’s level of intelligence. Stupid is as stupid does and so forth. That being said, I do agree that it would be difficult however to judge a person’s aptitude without some sort of reference. After living in Taiwan for over 10 years though I now doubt that aptitude is directly related to certification at all.
The Chinese didn’t develop a system of word and mouth for nothing you know. institutionalized education and certification is not an accurate measure of intelligence and/or ability, comprehension or appreciation.
[quote=“sulavaca”]I don’t agree that there is such a thing as level of education. I believe this is a misguided approach to understanding someone’s level of intelligence. Stupid is as stupid does and so forth. That being said, I do agree that it would be difficult however to judge a person’s aptitude without some sort of reference. After living in Taiwan for over 10 years though I now doubt that aptitude is directly related to certification at all.
The Chinese didn’t develop a system of word and mouth for nothing you know. institutionalized education and certification is not an accurate measure of intelligence and/or ability, comprehension or appreciation.[/quote]
Urm . . . No where do I mention anything about intelligence.
It is possible to educate yourself out of several job categories, particularly in education.
If you’re going to get a masters in education, get to the point where you’re nearly done, take leave, then go get a job. Once you’re secure in your contract, finish the masters. Otherwise, you’re right, you’ll never get hired.
As for university, I’m not much interested in a publication rat race either. A good teaching college would be far more to my liking, save that it’d mean missing out on working with grad students.
I don’t think further education is necessarily redundant, it just might not pay off financially.
I may not apply all the skills I acquired at work everyday, but the insights have definitely altered how I view the world. That’s a daily joy.
[quote]"Education: That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding
—AMBROSE BIERCE[/quote]
One can learn far more from any good library, with one's own intiative and interest well defined. The intellect is a fiend. One must feed it what it desires.
However, if it's pieces of paper for the rungs, then it's merely a question of: Il faut d'endurer....
One might get lucky and find a good instructor.
In any event, there's always the library......
~~~~~
I have a Master's, which I most certainly did not earn, by my values of today.
I guess it depends on the degree, but some of those pieces of paper are not so easy to get. There’s a big difference between saying, “Oh, I could go out and get one.” And actually going out and getting one.
There was a time when having a college degree didn’t so much mean that you knew something, but that you had the self-discipline to decide to do something and then go out and work very hard and get it. Now it doesn’t mean that. Now it’s just a certificate of job training. Since companies don’t train people anymore.
I like this quote. It makes me think of some of my former profs!! Those folks are some of the reasons I used to think of a PhD as being like a red flag uptight uselessness. I really used to have some very negative feelings about PhD holders because they always seemed so more knowledgable than thou. But I DO enjoy the challenge of thinking critically again that I get from my studies. I have one more semester of studies and one of internship. After that, no real challenging thinking will be required of me. A couple of my classes have been really useful and infomative–most of what we’re being taught I learned on my own by actually being a teacher. So what I appriciatete most is, like I said, the chance to use my mind.
I was a stay-at-home mommy for the first couple years after my son was born and was shocked at how many people seemed to think that my not working meant that my IQ had dropped off the charts. I don’t know. I guess it had a bigger impact than I’d thought on me, psychologiclally. I was really insulted and now, I guess, I enjoy proving that I’m not an idiot.
So far, most of you, have given some very good replies and input, although no one has voted. Please keep sharing your thoughts. I just never thought before that I’d feel the way I presently do about studying. I’m interested in reasons why other people have their feelings or thoughts. GingerMan, in particular, did a good job of communicating about this.
Yes, ABD. No, not using it. No, not worth it. Don’t go for it if you’re not sure you need or want it. The costs (actual financial outlay, opportunity loss, psychological trauma, lost years of one’s short life) are too high.
Yes, ABD. No, not using it. No, not worth it. Don’t go for it if you’re not sure you need or want it. The costs (actual financial outlay, opportunity loss, psychological trauma, lost years of one’s short life) are too high.[/quote]
How come you never finished it? The dissertation/original research part of the doctorate would be the most exciting part for me. Maybe he didn’t like your politics/writing style.
In retrospect, I guess I did it for the joy of borrowing money.
I have a couple, but they’re not exceptional in dignity, and I got them late in life, and after accumulating an unlovely patchwork of an employment and educational history.
Of course. I use one to decide all the important issues at my school, such as whether barleycorn is a countable or an uncountable noun. I use the other occasionally to do an Internet equivalent of talking to the TV.
I’ll get back with you on that in about twenty years if I’m still around.
Education and it’s value, hmm where do I begin. I will say, like everything in this world, education has it’s benefits. But it is vastly overrated, IMO. Times have changed, the American economy has changed and the level of respect for advanced education has changed. I’m in my final semester of a MA program and believe it has been one of the biggest mistakes, $$$ I’ve ever done.
By this stage in my life, I have yet to see education really make a difference in this world, notwithstanding the science fields.
I’m slowly working my way through a Master of Information Management and Systems at Monash University. I’m doing it by distance education, part time (typically one unit per semester). It’s not cheap, but not expensive (about a quarter of the cost of most MBAs from what I can see), and I’ve been able to apply what I’m learning directly to my current work experience, which is very satisfying. This course is also highly flexible in its application in the information industry. I see it as a good investment.
I was checking a final report the other day and noticed the author had added PhD after his name. His PhD is in an unrelated field, but I thought what the hell, it’s a title and one hard won. However, another reviewer, also a PhD said, “fuck that, just means he stuck around at university too long. Take it off.” There’s some truth to that.
Education over an above getting you in the door in whatever your chosen field is a modern day con. It’s way better to get into whatever you aim to do and gain experience.
Many reasons. I was clinically depressed, due to the stress of years and years of a difficult program (which had a high dropout rate), the fact that I could see my professors were unhappy with the publish or perish situation they were in (one committed suicide), the suicide of my sister and the deaths of my grandma (whom I lived with – my closest family member) and my beloved dog, my girlfriend leaving me, financial pressures, an advisor who led me into an absurdly difficult master’s thesis project (more involved and lengthy than some PhD’s) so that by the time I finished it I didn’t have the energy to do the doctoral dissertation, and (most importantly) a shift in personal interests, with the realization that I was happiest when studying languages and teaching, not when doing research or studying my grad area (Industrial and Organizational Psychology). I started studying Mandarin for fun, realized I’d rather be teaching while studying, and decided to give Taiwan a try. Compared to the depressive rut I was in, a complete change in surroundings, a low-stress job doing something I already knew I liked, and the opportunity to immerse myself in intensive Mandarin studies sounded like a good change. And it was.
Not everyone is going to be happy in a Ph.D. program. I’ve seen SOOOOO many miserable people who regret taking that route. There’s no guarantee that you won’t burn out just about the time you finish the Master’s portion. There’s no guarantee you’ll find the right dissertation topic for you. There’s no guarantee your adviser will be helpful, or will even stick around long enough to see your project through. My mom’s left halfway through hers, and the new advisor wouldn’t accept her topic, so she had to start over. Mine was incompetent and unhelpful.
I recommend that people who are considering a Ph.D. enter a program which grants a Master’s along the way, so that if you want to bail out midway, you have something to show for it. And make sure that it’s a field where a Master’s is useful for getting a better job, too.
That sounds like a rough period in your life. You should have chosen your university (I’m guessing Midwest/Northeast state uni right?) and advisor more wisely. Can’t believe things can get so nasty, competitive, and unhelpful at that level. A lot of advisors have their students’ life and mental stability in their hands and some can’t be bothered to put in the effort. Sad. That’s why if I ever did it, it would be purely for the joy of learning. I don’t need it for job advancement, but I wouldn’t really want to pay a ridiculous amount of money for the pleasure either. I’m thinking in 10 years, I’ll maybe take a year off to do parts of it and then travel back and forth at certain times to complete the rest. I’d only do it if:
(1) They offered to pay most of the tuition (with my grades in my masters program, shouldn’t be a problem).
(2) I hit it off with the advisor after sending him/her my research proposal etc.
For me, the masters’ programs in the UK were quick and painless. I’d go there for my doctorate as well, although if the right uni in the US (Hoover Institute at Stanford etc.)offered a scholarship, I’d jump at the opportunity.
in my job getting a PhD IS the only way. full stop. there is no such thing as getting in the door at the ground floor and working your way up, you can only get in at the TOP floor. so it was not wasted, nor is the fact that i can now tell other PhDs what to do in no uncertain terms, and get listened to. if i did that without a PhD I’d get no return customers.
i have an MSc too, but soon realised that i was not going to progress far beyond a button pusher or paper shuffler with just that. and the process of the degree, the actual hard time spent with long late nights in the lab, etc, the mental blocks, the frustration, the joy, the sheer reality of the process is irreplaceable. not to mention the mechanics of creating a 500 page book. i did it the Oxford style, where you teach yourself everything you need to know, not the piss-easy american style of PhD where the course is just that: a course, so perhaps that’s why i got so much more out of it (and have no regrets at all).
but a PhD for fun? don’t be stupid. a PhD when it’s not necessary? don’t be an arrogant show-off. if it’s just to improve your own sense of well-being, go to a shrink and get a head check, or perhaps easier, a facelift, a perm, a fast car and a blowjob from a hot model.
Hey, I’m not the one shamelessly mentioning Oxford as you are. Not all people use education for career reasons. I didn’t pursue a job for at least a year or two after graduation. In grad school, there were those people that wore a suit and tie and shamelessly networked. There were those of us that drank, chased, sharted (after consuming nasty kebabs), and drank some more. The slackers and people who had fun and were truly passionate about their programs (for non-monetary reasons), interestingly enough, often got better grades in the program and had much more successful careers afterwards. If I had to return to grad school one day for a doctorate (and I probably will as I love learning), it would be 100 percent for personal reasons. Not to get an academic position, not to get an extra ten or twenty K a year, or to dickwave with it. It would be for the pleasure of seeing a quality paper being planned, researched, and written, for the friendships formed with fellow students, and for the return to a university-learning environment.
It would probably be “your type” of careerist student that I would want to avoid. Boring wankers.
