When is the dog fashion craze going to faze?

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

My neighborhood has a wide sidewalk around the local junior school which used to be great for strollers and joggers, except that it’s now carpeted in dog crap. It’s also a quiet area because the streets are pretty narrow and aren’t exactly a short cut to of from anywhere. Well, it would be quiet but for the lonely cries of some of the local mutts and the arguments between the others. :unamused:

For a long time I thought I was the only one who cares or is bothered by this, but I’m not. The school is pretty annoyed with all the poop around it’s perimeter so they started putting up notices around their walls to ask the owners to be more public spirited and clean up the poop. Result: The poop started accumulating the darkest (at night) part of the perimeter where the offenders would be less easy to spot. Since dogs can’t read (AFAIK) I guess it’s owners idea to escape attention. Many of the notices were also defaced or removed, so I guess some people are offended that they should be asked to clean up after their pets.
Our building management association chief also got a bug up his ass about since he and his wife used to like to jog around there, and some of the other residents had also complained about it. He’d been to the li chang to discuss but go nowhere, so he decided to write our wonderful mayor (Jason Who?) about the problem.

Jason Who?s response was that it the responsibility of the education ministry to keep the sidewalk clear of crap, not his. Buck-passing at it’s finest… blame the victim. The education ministry insist that it’s the duty of the EPA to fix this. EPA’s response is to ask us (the offended) to collect evidence that it can act on. Oh, finally someone is prepared to take some action rather than pass the buck on? :laughing: Don’t get so excited…

As has been mentioned in previous discussions, EPA needs us to do the whole job for them. We have to get evidence of the offence (photos of the dog crapping and of the owner), plus the name and address of the owner. Like anyone doing this is going to first let you take photos of them and then provide you (Joe Citizen) with their name and address so you can have them prosecuted. Puh-lease. :unamused: Dont you just love the way the system works here, all the outward appearance of rule of law, and none of the utility?

So after a lot of wasted effort our crusader gave up, and we just don’t use the sidewalk anymore. I just walk in the street now because I don’t have to look out for dog crap there … it’s all on the sidewalk. The kids from the school have to come out once or twice a week to clean their perimeter before it becomes a health hazard. The only comic relief from this crappy business was that Jason Who? claimed to have established a standard which the city should meet regarding the amount of crap on the streets. Every li should only ever have 55 pieces of crap in it. :laughing: When pushed for clarification as to whose responsibility it was to meet that standard the answer was… silence. I need a copy of that letter for when I need a good laugh.

So, still not daunted by this failure our crusader focused upon the noise problem. We have now about ten dogs in a building with forty units, and the neighboring buildings have dogs too, so it gets pretty damn noisy. Unfortunately, animal control says it has to be on site when the offending dog is barking to able to do anything about it. Recordings are not acceptable. Statements by witnesses are not acceptable. I can imagine that after one or two wasted visits to a site they are going to stop coming out, so again the system seems to be designed purposely to fail.

I’m curious as to what level this nuisance has to rise to before something will change. Obviously the systems in place are there to provide the illusion of regulation, not the reality. How deep does the crap have to get before something will actually get done to change the behaviour of the owners? How loud does the barking have to get before people will stop buying more dogs? When is dog ownership going to fall from fashion and these people move onto the next thing they think is going to make them look cool? When are all these people who lack the time to properly care for a pet just going to get rid of them?

Before the Forumosan dog owners chime in to tell me that their pet doesn’t bark or cry, or that they always pick up it’s crap, I’ll say thank you to them. You don’t need to post that information. I don’t dislike dogs. I just don’t want to listen to them or have to walk through their toilet.

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Taiwan is simply too crowded for the majority of people to have pets. What kind of life does a dog have here living in an apartment? The poor animal is often left alone, the only highlight perhaps a little stroll in the evening when the owner gets home.
I know that quite a few people have a pet because they took in a stray. This I can understand, but not buying one from a pet store.

For folks who know about dogs, what would you say are the minimum requirements for a dog in terms of space, exercise, social contact (with dogs/humans)?

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Unfortunately, a lot of the dogs are a fashion accessory to their owners. A symptom of an immature consumer society and a phase that will eventually pass. Most of us won

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Redwagon, I will just chime in to say that I thought your post well banced and your complaints valid. You are also under no allusion as to where the real blame lies.

People who let their dogs defecate without clearing it up and allow them to bark at all hours do all us responsible pet guardians a disfavour … and our dogs.

I am one of the only ones in my neighbourhood who regularly walks his dogs, a key practice in reducing boredom and excess energy behaviours such as barking. But my neighbours don’t know that, so when they hear dogs barking, they think it’s my dogs. When they see poop from other dogs, they think it’s from mine.

For the poop problem, I would suggest putting up one of those poop disposal boxes and keep it stocked up with bags - it’s a great compromise that works. For the barking, you need to somehow promote dog walking. Ironically, the neighbourhoods around Taipei who prevented dog exercise areas being constructed because they thought it would be noisy are the ones who have the noisiest dogs, because they aren’t being exercised enough.

We are putting some info on the AnimalsTaiwan website about how simple measures such as walking dogs and allowing them to become part of the family will alleviate many behavioural problems. It will be translated into Chinese, too, so we hope it will start to make a difference - to neighbours like you as well as the dogs themselves.

Sean

5

Last summer there was a dog owner who would walk his dog at night, but let the dog shit at the entrance of my lane. A couple of times I trod in it by accident.
One day I caught the offending human and canine pair in the act so I followed them home. Later I went out with a plastic bag to clean up the mess and I transferred it to the owners front door step, where I’m sure he had a nasty surprise in the morning.
I kept doing this until he got the message. Every time I see him now he cleans up the mess with a plastic bag.

Of course this can’t be done to every dog walker around your school, but taking pictures of them (or even pretending to) may well unnerve them enough to at least make them consider their selfish actions.

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[quote=“Stray Dog”]
We are putting some info on the AnimalsTaiwan website about how simple measures such as walking dogs and allowing them to become part of the family will alleviate many behavioural problems.[/quote]I think most of the problem is that the owners have no idea that there any problems. IOW, “I have no problem” = “No problem exists”. I will be interested in that info though. I already did one open letter to my neighbours (to no effect) so I’d be keen to try yours.
Good suggestion on the crap box and bags. I’ll pass that on to our crusader and to the school if possible.

[quote=“Dangermouse”]One day I caught the offending human and canine pair in the act so I followed them home.[/quote]:lol: Our offenders are smarter than that. They only come out very late at night, and it’s usually just me and the dog owner out there at that time. When I try to photograph them they get spooked and just drag the dog around and around on the leash until I go away. Then they crap and run. Of course a photo is useless without a name and address, but I thought maybe the school could use the photos to shame the owners into modifying their behaviour.

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[EDIT::wink: you beat me to it redwagon, but for what it’s worth…]

name and shame?.. well, not name really, but… take photos of all and any owners and their pooping pooches and get permission from the school to prominently display them on the wall of the poop polluted sidewalk… failing that see if the school can print out surveillance camera shots…

as you well know crass selfishness is a much cherished attribute in Taiwanese culture, but being called out for a public face loosing is the sum of all fears for most folks… if nothing else the intermittent presence of a camera wielding malcontent will deter all but the most dedicated “me first-ers”… fight fire with photography… :smiling_imp:

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Put up notices calling a meeting of everybody in the neighborhood…on the notice, clearly state the meeting is concerning the dog poop on the sidewalk…get school representatives there too…during the meeting, identify the key “dark” spots and organize neighbors to patrol that area during the times when people and dog go to do their shadowy business (I am guessing around 9PM to 12AM)…put the signs back up telling people to clean up after their dogs…let it run for a month or so…I think most people will get the message…just tell them it is okay to take their dogs out to poop…they just need to CLEAN UP AFTER THEM…for some weird reason, people think owning a dog is all fun and games…they don’t realize cleaning up poop and teaching their mutts not to bark and annoy people is also part of ownership too…

I am guessing dog owners do the same thing in Taipei City…but because there are street sweepers who come out before the sun rises to sweep/clean the streets, it gets pretty much cleaned up before anybody sees it…I feel sorry for the street sweepers…they actually do a great job…but their presence seems to give people the impression it is OKAY to litter because it will be cleaned up by others…I really HATE that attitude…

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[quote=“Pluck-A-Duck”]I feel sorry for the street sweepers…they actually do a great job…but their presence seems to give people the impression it is OKAY to litter because it will be cleaned up by others.[/quote]Many times I’ve pulled up behind a car at a red in time to see the driver toss some trash out the window, got out, strolled over, picked up the trash and handed it back to the driver with “I think you just dropped this by mistake :smiley:”. Most the time I just get the dumb look and maybe a “Uh… thanks”, but once in a while I get the answer you describe. “What’s the problem? Someone will be along to sweep this up pretty soon anyway”. Who the fuck do these people think they are that someone else should have to clean up their shit?

You’re sorry for the street cleaners (and so am I) but I’m really sorry for the poor junior school kids that have to go out and clean up dog crap before they start class twice a week. If my kid came home from school and told me he’d had to clean dogshit off a sidewalk I’d completely lose it. :fume:

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Wow! I didn’t know this was a common practice in schools here.

I guess in some ways it’s good, teaches them some values, but in other it’s not fair because it’s other people’s trash they’re cleaning.

When I was in school we had regular activities where we would clean the school grounds, courtyard, etc. But that was our own trash we had to pick up, so the message we were getting was very clear, simple and effective.

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I don’t know if it’s common at other schools because I don’t pay them any attention. I notice it at my local junior school because I drive past it at just the right time of morning to see the kids cleaning the sidewalk. Before doggymania hit they used to be cleaning just the school grounds. Now they have a crew out cleaning the sidewalk outside the wall.
I also believe that having responsibility for the school grounds should be a useful lesson for the kids. I don’t think they should have to clean up dogshit left outside the school walls by selfish adults in the area when they can’t do anything about it. At least if a kid litters inside the others can give him/her the beatdown they deserve. What can they do to the so-called grownups outside?

12

Have the teachers organize secret gangs of kids who will then ambush the so-called grownups at night and beat the crap out of them? (sorry for the crappy pun)

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^^^ … or maybe motivate their parents / elder siblings to do same… :smiling_imp:

I don’t think the offenders should be beaten. I think they should have their noses rubbed in the poop, and then be beaten.

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[quote=“redwagon”]I don’t know if it’s common at other schools because I don’t pay them any attention. I notice it at my local junior school because I drive past it at just the right time of morning to see the kids cleaning the sidewalk. Before doggymania hit they used to be cleaning just the school grounds. Now they have a crew out cleaning the sidewalk outside the wall.
I also believe that having responsibility for the school grounds should be a useful lesson for the kids. I don’t think they should have to clean up dogshit left outside the school walls by selfish adults in the area when they can’t do anything about it. At least if a kid litters inside the others can give him/her the beatdown they deserve. What can they do to the so-called grownups outside?[/quote]

The people who let their dogs crap on the school sidewalks…I mean, don’t the kids come from the same neighborhood as these people? Aren’t some of these people the parents of the kids who goes to the school??? Do they realize their own kids are cleaning up poop? :loco:

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I’ve lost count of the number of times my local friends have said “it’s okay, there are people who will come and clean it up…” after they throw rubbish, cigarette buts, etc on the street/sidewalk… it seems this is a fairly deeply intrenched mantra here… doesn’t matter if you foul other people’s environment because you’re too lazy/selfish to care, if you don’t live there, it’s not your responsibility…

I live in a fairly small lane, every day school kids, old folks, young parents, all kinds of people who live in this lane walk up and down it on the way to the local 711… all of them will without a second thought just toss the empty milk tea container, coke can, cigarette but, chewed bin lang, packaging of their 711 cold noodles etc. over their shoulder as they walk home… it’s not outside their house, so not a problem… :noway: :loco:

nobody seems too interested in teaching the next generation anything different either…

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The minimum requirements for space and exercise vary by the size, breed, and age of the dog. But minimum requirements aside, more space and exercise (whether romping for younger dogs or walking for older dogs) is always better than less.

As for social contact, all dogs are social animals and need company as much of the time as possible. (This is even true of dogs that don’t seem very sociable by nature.) “Company” can simply be the presence of another dog or a person in the house to put them at ease – one of the cruelest things you can do to a dog is to leave it alone for extended periods on a regular basis.

I have two dogs. One a stray that wasn’t going to make it if I didn’t take her in, and the second also a stray that I took in mainly because I work long hours and didn’t want the first to have to stay home by herself. (Of course I care for them equally.) Dogs are very adaptable to environment and lifestyle, but all dogs crave company.

17

Wife wanted dog. Me too, but

Me say no space in NeiHu spitstain lane apartment

Me say dog will be alone all day when we are in office.

So she ordered 2 dogs and I have to buy a house with garden.

:astonished:

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[quote=“Pluck-A-Duck”]
The people who let their dogs crap on the school sidewalks…I mean, don’t the kids come from the same neighborhood as these people? Aren’t some of these people the parents of the kids who goes to the school??? Do they realize their own kids are cleaning up poop? :loco:[/quote]Hmm, let me try and remember what the demographics are.
I think about half of the dog owners I see out there are youngish and don’t have kids with them, so maybe they are dinks like me. Of the ones that are out with a dog and no cleanup gear, 80% typical early 20’s taike types and 20% middleage-middleclass-bitch-housewife-from-hell types. :unamused: Sure there are offenders with kids, but most likely their precious little darlings are in middle school or highschool already.

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The minimum requirements for space and exercise vary by the size, breed, and age of the dog. But minimum requirements aside, more space and exercise (whether romping for younger dogs or walking for older dogs) is always better than less.

As for social contact, all dogs are social animals and need company as much of the time as possible. (This is even true of dogs that don’t seem very sociable by nature.) “Company” can simply be the presence of another dog or a person in the house to put them at ease – one of the cruelest things you can do to a dog is to leave it alone for extended periods on a regular basis.

I have two dogs. One a stray that wasn’t going to make it if I didn’t take her in, and the second also a stray that I took in mainly because I work long hours and didn’t want the first to have to stay home by herself. (Of course I care for them equally.) Dogs are very adaptable to environment and lifestyle, but all dogs crave company.[/quote]

This is exactly what we tell people who say they already have one dog. I know from experience that two dogs are easier and much more humane than one. :wink:

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[quote=“Stray Dog”]

This is exactly what we tell people who say they already have one dog. I know from experience that two dogs are easier and much more humane than one. :wink:[/quote]

Yes, at home I had 2 Malamutes with my parents. And many dogs before, usually in pairs. They just gog all happy when a partner of the other sex arrived. After some initial food fight and teeth showing that is. And then thez became 10 … :smiley:

A dong becomes a real dog only when in company, not lying on the rug all day long, correct.