Which Premium Handcart Would You Choose?

Life Cars & Motorcycles
21

[quote=“Elegua”]What kind of shopping trolley? Maybe the supermarket ones don’t work, but I think you’d get a lot of mileage out of bungeeing (sp?) one of these to the back…

[/quote]

To get the full benefit of the three-cornered-go-up-stairs-wheels I’d have to have them on the scooter as well. I think there may be some traction and braking issues with that, and anyway I currently hire a scooter when I need one, so it’d be inconvenient swapping the wheels out all the time.

But keep the suggestions coming, there may be a diamond in the coal.

22

[quote=“Elegua”]
[/quote]

Is that supposed to be a “Premium” Handcart?! :noway:

Elegua, is this what you’re pullin’?! :laughing:

Cuz I don’t see the word “Premium” anywhere! :no-no: :no-no: :no-no: :no-no: :no-no: :no-no: :no-no: :no-no:

I reckon you could make signs that say, “Premium” and superglue them to the sides . . . but you know what you’d be haulin’ behind you, and I’d know as well. You’re not gonna feel too “premium” when you see me makin’ sparks leavin’ the market, with all the produce hotties runnin’ after me . . . and you’re sittin’ there, adjusting your bungees, with your obviously fake, “premium” handcart.

But, seriously, is this being marketed as a “Premium” Handcart?! :astonished:

23

Tough crowd…Several imported trolleys


For that industrial look - bet you could have Ah Huang fabricate one

24

[quote=“redwagon”]Is there some sort of equation for calculating the exact number of flat black bungees to attach the cart to the back of the scooter? Seems to me you have to have enough tensile strength there to actually get the load to overcome inertia and follow along, while retaining enough compliance to allow the scooter to lean in corners without tipping the cart over. Of course the number would change along with the load on the cart.

This is like a whole new area of suspension technology just waiting to be explored. :ponder:[/quote]

This takes us a little off-topic to another off-topic sub-topic, but you’re a mod so I guess its OK.

Very speculatively, I’ve wondered about applying this kind of “suspension” (articulation might be a better term) to a quasi-three wheeler design. This would be a cross between the 4-wheeler disabled-modified bikes/scooters, (with two outrigger wheels) and the three wheeler triucks. The frame carrying the outer two wheels, extended forward in an A frame, forms a “cage” for an intact flexibly articulated motorcycle in its centre. Ideally, this motorcycle would be able to tilt into corners, increasing the stability of the combo, which is low for a conventional trike. The frame provides a small load area, and possible weather and crash protection.

If the articulation involved opposed torsion, say acting longitudanally through the (redundant) centre stand, it could provide a restoring force so that at rest the motorcycle stayed upright. Braking of the “cage” could be on an overrun basis, as for a conventional trailer. With the bike removed and its slot filled in, the cage could perhaps (depending on balance) be used as a conventional trailer behind a two, three, or four wheeled vehicle.

There would be significant risk of instability for a test pilot, but if properly developed the system could offer an increase in versatility and practicality for a motorcycle, many of which have ample, even excessive reserves of power.

In Taiwan one would hope such a device would be confused with the disabled 4-wheelers / 3-wheel triucks and escape specific regulation. The majority of motorcycles here might be underpowered for such an application, but this would keep them safer. OTOH, if scooter transmission/suspension units were used for the outrigger wheels, the available power could be usefully supplemented, though control and safety would then be (even) greater challenges.

Above reads like one of those nutter-filed patent applications one sees on the US patent Office website, so there’s probably even more wrong with it than the obvious.

And it isn’t really a premium handcart. Sorry, got carried away.

25

[quote=“Elegua”]Tough crowd…Several imported trolleys


For that industrial look - bet you could have Ah Huang fabricate one
[/quote]

Think the first one would fall over in a corner. Never seen anything like that towed here.

The second looks like a wooden version of the steel ones you do see towed. Its got big wheels and they’re probably pneumatic, so close, though I’d bet wooden ones are no longer made.

I’ve seen things quite like number three towed, but they have bigger, better tyres (and only two of them) plywood bodywork, a drawbar, and a more aerodynamic triangular front section. Too big really, wouldn’t be able to store it.

26

I think the handcart works the best because:

  1. It only has two wheels on a single axles, so even they are fixed (ie not on casters) the cart doesn’t self-steer to any great extent. Four wheel trailers always suffer this to some extent.
  2. The cart’s axle is far enough behind the scooter and the track narrow enough not to induce much self-steer.
  3. Since the bungee ‘hitch’ is usually attached to the scooter’s grab rail, it adds a load through the scooter’s rear suspension. The less you add there the better. The four wheel carts would in theory be better in this respect, but in practice the horrible self-steer of casters would far offset this benefit. If you load the handcart properly, much of the payload is close to the floor plate of the cart, and therefore above or behind the cart wheels, which means less load on the ‘hitch’ to the scooter.

Winner:

27

How stable do you need it? Would it tip over if you turned too fast, had it at too steep a angle or carried something too heavy?

What is the weight/density and dimenstion of what you want to carry?

28

Oooooooh, yeah! :lick:

Hello, Dolly!
:howyoudoin:

NOW we’re talkin’!

THAT is a thing of beauty!

Just take off the wheels, and we’re there.

Thanks, redwagon!

29

You guys are peasants, none of this shit is premium.

What you really need is a big displacement SUV cart that will carry 4 kids to the school run in comfort AND tackle those tough offroad shopping jobs:

Or if you can’t stretch that far you could always settle for the 2WD version:

30

[quote=“redwagon”]I think the handcart works the best because:

  1. It only has two wheels on a single axles, so even they are fixed (ie not on casters) the cart doesn’t self-steer to any great extent. Four wheel trailers always suffer this to some extent.
  2. The cart’s axle is far enough behind the scooter and the track narrow enough not to induce much self-steer.
  3. Since the bungee ‘hitch’ is usually attached to the scooter’s grab rail, it adds a load through the scooter’s rear suspension. The less you add there the better. The four wheel carts would in theory be better in this respect, but in practice the horrible self-steer of casters would far offset this benefit. If you load the handcart properly, much of the payload is close to the floor plate of the cart, and therefore above or behind the cart wheels, which means less load on the ‘hitch’ to the scooter.

Winner:
[/quote]

Yeh, that’s the kind of thing the old ladies use. The rest of you have been trying to Second Guess The Old Ladies. Never Work. :no-no:

That particular implementation of the general design perhaps isn’t ideal, however, because the curve in the central spine that forms a stand when its horizontal, though neat, is likely to interfere with the rear of the scooter when its being towed. You could tow from the curve but then you’d need to make special arrangements to ensure the tow-hitch couldn’t slip round the curve.

Other similar devices have short vertical legs closer to the wheels (as does the wooden version above), which are less obstructive.

That one looks to have pneumatic tyres. Are these likely to be more or less stable? I’d guess more because the tyre offers some damping, but I’m not sure I’m right.

And where can I get one?

31

[quote=“Ducked”]
And where can I get one?[/quote]
I always see these things in the bigger industrial hardware stores and markets. AFAIK they only come with pneumatic tires, which would be much safer than solids. Check to see if they have proper ball-bearings in the hubs though as I’ve seen some with cheapo plastic bushings.
Totally agree about the loop in the frame on that one. Try to get one without that ‘feature’.

Of course you could just the next old fishwife you see dragging one where she got hers. How’s your Taiwanese? :wink:

32

[quote=“llary”]You guys are peasants, none of this shit is premium.

What you really need is a big displacement SUV cart that will carry 4 kids to the school run in comfort AND tackle those tough offroad shopping jobs:

Or if you can’t stretch that far you could always settle for the 2WD version:

[/quote]

4 wheels already rejected for sound technical reasons we don’t need to reherse

2 wheel version is too short

Plus your analogy to an SUV is a good one. It looks tough at first sight, but if you look at all closely its a POS. That front “suspension”, for example. Jeez!

Like comparing a school run SUV with a “real” off-road or commercial vehicle. Take that on Taiwan’s mean streets towed behind an ole lady, and it’ll be scrap itself in a few klicks.

Edit:But you’ve heard this “ostentatious, overcomplex, unsuitable for Taiwan” Caledonian Curmudgeonly Criticism before. Sorry pal. Didnae mean tae rub it in, likes.

33

Get it with the spine. That become a natural tie-off point and will keep your attachment centered. It will need to work a little bit like a hitch. Properly done 2 clove hitches with the rope wrapped around the handle on the back of the scooter could work.

Don’t use bungee as it will spring too much, especially if you have a heavy load.

34

[quote=“Elegua”]
Don’t use bungee as it will spring too much, especially if you have a heavy load.[/quote]
You usually see Ah Huang (or Mrs. Huang) lashing these on with those flat, black bungees… the solid rubber ones. They are a lot stronger and stretch less than the typical consumer items.

35

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Elegua”]
Don’t use bungee as it will spring too much, especially if you have a heavy load.[/quote]
You usually see Ah Huang (or Mrs. Huang) lashing these on with those flat, black bungees… the solid rubber ones. They are a lot stronger and stretch less than the typical consumer items.[/quote]

Yeah, I know. Don’t make it right, though. I prefer things with a bit less stretch when towing.

36

[quote=“Elegua”][quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Elegua”]
Don’t use bungee as it will spring too much, especially if you have a heavy load.[/quote]
You usually see Ah Huang (or Mrs. Huang) lashing these on with those flat, black bungees… the solid rubber ones. They are a lot stronger and stretch less than the typical consumer items.[/quote]

Yeah, I know. Don’t make it right, though. I prefer things with a bit less stretch when towing.[/quote]

STILL second-guessing The Ancients? Will you young people never learn?

I’m speculating a bit, but I THINK those bungees (probably sliced from truck inner-tubes) are fairly strong and if multiple turns are used in a lashing they wont stretch excessively.

They are certainly not as strong as synthetic rope (I’ve also occaisionally seen metal towing hooks used)
but I don’t like synthetic rope anywhere near vehicle moving parts, having seen the consequences of a nylon camouflage net wrapping round a 4 tonner propshaft at speed. Stopped dead.

Very dead.

A bungee would probably stop you too, but maybe not quite as dead, and I THINK its less likely to come loose than knots in a slippery synthetic rope

The bungees perhaps also have the advantage that they can apply a gradually increasing restoring force as the trailer tips. Rope, even nylon, is likely to be loose initially then tighten rather abruptly, giving a jerky action.

Anyway, speculation, and I could easily be wrong. If I have an opportunity to test it I’ll let you know.

37

I think if you head down to the fish market early you can just nab one of these. It might be better to pay a small Taiwanese child to do the deed as they won’t be used to seeing an Adoba pushing one but essentially they are free. :smiley:

38

[quote]The bungees perhaps also have the advantage that they can apply a gradually increasing restoring force as the trailer tips. Rope, even nylon, is likely to be loose initially then tighten rather abruptly, giving a jerky action.
[/quote]

I was thinking spectra or dyneema. Super low stretch and super high breaking strength; probably stronger than the cart. Proper knots won’t come undone until you want them to.

Nylon is probably the best as there is some give, but not too much.

39

[quote=“Elegua”]
Nylon is probably the best as there is some give, but not too much.[/quote]
Not to mention the far superior resistance to UV degradation, compared to either spectra or dyneema. :wink:

40

[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Elegua”]
Nylon is probably the best as there is some give, but not too much.[/quote]
Not to mention the far superior resistance to UV degradation, compared to either spectra or dyneema. :wink: [/quote]

Which is why they put a braided nylon cover on for the marine application. :wink: :wink: