Which word for "Chinese"?

Language Learning Chinese
21

zhongwen for mainlanders (or any kind of wen) usually refers to the written language. e.g yingwen vs yinyu; zhongwen vs hanyu

Guoyu is not used very often by mainlanders mandarin speakers as (I guess) they don’t need to differentiate their mother tongue from the national language. Yhey will usually say putonghua or hanyu. However, you will often find where Mandarin is not the mother tongue then the Chinese will refer to the national language (Mandarin) as guoyu.

In Taiwan (which is the original posters question) guoyu is used a lot, zhongwen is also used often. However, putonghua and hanyu is seldomly used. (Most likely used only in learning or discussions such as this.)

I feel, that while other posters made worthwhile contributions, Tetsuo answered the original posters question the most accurately.

        :bravo:  :notworthy:  :bravo:  :notworthy:  :bravo:
22

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]I disagree with most of the previous posters.

In my experience ‘guoyu’ is used to refer to Chinese (language) a lot more than ‘zhongwen’.

Also ‘dalu’ is used to refer to China in the vast majoity of cases (in fact ‘zhonguo’ is very rarely used.

Brian[/quote]

Isn’t that what Tetsuo said? He said Zhongwen was used to refer to Chinese in a general sense, not general as in most commonly. Under ‘guoyu’ he said “by far the most common for the spoken language”.

For the mainland he said: [quote]Usually dalu, sometimes zhongguo dalu, and sometimes - usually, from what I’ve heard, when trying to make a point - zhongguo.[/quote]
I think he was 100% right. I was giving a little more information, but I completely agreed with him.

Where is the disagreement? Edit: meaning- “Who are you disagreeing with?”

23

For some related comments on “Chinese,” see this book review of Hilary Chappell’s Sinitic Grammar.

24

As an addendum - today, for the first time (that I can recall), I actually saw taiwanhua and zhongguohua used. Both were in the titles of books either about learning Chinese or the Chinese language. Didn’t investigate either any further for the sake of time, but obviously they are actually used, if not frequently.

25

Yes it’s political. Are you sure that the driver didn’t say Hua2yu3? That’s more common than hanyu though hanyu is possible too. Many Taiwanese speakers (quite properly to my mind) don’t like it when you refer to Mandarin as the ‘National Language’ since they believe that (1) Mandarin was forced on them and (2) Taiwanese should be the national language. Recently, Guoyu has been made plural in official language policy so that Taiwanese, indigenous, Hakka, and Mandarin are ALL official languages. As you might imagine, this has not caught on in popular usage.

26

Isn’t it regional? I’ve noticed that people use “guoyu” (to distinguish from “taiyu”) in the South, where there are many Taiwanese speakers, but “zhongwen” is used more often in the North, because “Chinese” is their native language.

27

My gf (a native Mandarin speaker born and raised in Tainan) disagrees. She says guoyu is used most frequently island-wide to refer to spoken Mandarin. Zhongwen generally refers to the language in general or if written is included.

28

I stumbled across this abstract from a journal from the Chinese Language Teaching Association while doing some research. BTW thanks for the link Puiwaihin :thanks:

[b]The Two Mandarins: Pŭtōnghu

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[quote=“GongChangZhang”]I stumbled across this abstract from a journal from the Chinese Language Teaching Association while doing some research. BTW thanks for the link Puiwaihin :thanks:

[b]The Two Mandarins: Pŭtōnghu

30

If I may add my two cents as to my experience in hearing these terms being used in Taiwan (and many of these are in agreement with Tetsuo’s masterful post):

Zhongwen is technically supposed to be reserved for written Chinese, but I commonly hear people in Taiwan using it to describe spoken Mandarin.

Hanyu: rarely used in Taiwan, with exceptions including the titles of dictionaries (ying-han, han-ying), and the official name of Hanyu Pinyin (which many Taiwanese refer to as “dalu pinyin” or just “luoma pinyin”.

Zhonguohua : occasionally used by elderly “mainlanders”.

Guoyu : very common. This is probably the most frequently used term refering to spoken Mandarin.

Putonghua : I’ve only heard this when someone is jokingly imitating a mainlander (as opposed to a “mainlander” - notice the absence or presence of quotes)

Taiwanhua, Taiyu (or “daigi” or “daigu”), Minnanyu, Minnanhua, Hokkien, Fujianhua: if we ignore the subtle differences that may or may not exist among these terms, they are all used to describe the Taiwanese language.

Taiwan Guoyu is heavily Taiwanese-accented Mandarin with lots of Taiwanese phrases mixed in.

Huayu: Rarely heard here. Very common in Singapore and overseas Chinese communities in Southeast Asia to refer to Mandarin.

31

[quote=“Bu Lai En”]I disagree with most of the previous posters.

In my experience ‘guoyu’ is used to refer to Chinese (language) a lot more than ‘zhongwen’.

Also ‘dalu’ is used to refer to China in the vast majoity of cases (in fact ‘zhonguo’ is very rarely used.

Brian[/quote]
I’ve heard people in Taiwan use “zhongguo” to refer to the mainland. Not very often, but it happens. These people, in my experience, fall into two categories:

a) fervent supporters of Taiwan independence who want separate identities for Taiwan and the mainland

and

b) people who are trying to communicate with a Westerner from the Westerner’s point of view, perhaps believeing that the Westerner is ignorant about the cross-straits political situation, or who perhaps has spent time in the West and simply is used to using the words “Taiwan” and “China”.

32

OK, my answer here:

this phrase is commonly and officially used for defining the language spoken in China.

This word is equivalent to Zhongwen (Chinese). Then, why people still use “Hanyu”? because there are so many dialects in different parts of China, which are regionally brach of Chinese language. Han people is the biggest ethic group in China, the language spoken by them is generally called “hanyu”. Some ethic minorities have their own language and characters.

This is a colloquial word when talking about the language used in China.

This word is very rarely used in maindland China. This word dated back to Republic of China in 1910’s-1920’s, when the government wanted to set a standard for the accent. Because they realized the difficult and the language barrier that prevented people effectively communicating and business development. So the education ministry at that time set the standard called “Guoyu”. This word is still commonly used in Taiwan nowadays, I guess. Though I’ve never been there.

This word is the standard-accent Chinese language widely used in mainland China, which is based on Beijing accent.

Well, this word, I would say, means Taiwan dialects which are spoken exclusively in Taiwan.

similar words as Taiwanhua such as: Minnan hua (dialect spoken in South Fujian Province), Guangdong hua (guess the meaning?? :slight_smile:), etc…

I think a few friends tried to answer you may make some mistakes. Also, please correct me if I am wrong in this post.

33

[quote=“usmaster81”]OK, my answer here:

this phrase is commonly and officially used for defining the language spoken in China.

This word is equivalent to Zhongwen (Chinese). Then, why people still use “Hanyu”? because there are so many dialects in different parts of China, which are regionally brach of Chinese language. Han people is the biggest ethic group in China, the language spoken by them is generally called “hanyu”. Some ethic minorities have their own language and characters.

This is a colloquial word when talking about the language used in China.

This word is very rarely used in maindland China. This word dated back to Republic of China in 1910’s-1920’s, when the government wanted to set a standard for the accent. Because they realized the difficult and the language barrier that prevented people effectively communicating and business development. So the education ministry at that time set the standard called “Guoyu”. This word is still commonly used in Taiwan nowadays, I guess. Though I’ve never been there.

This word is the standard-accent Chinese language widely used in mainland China, which is based on Beijing accent.

Well, this word, I would say, means Taiwan dialects which are spoken exclusively in Taiwan.

similar words as Taiwanhua such as: Minnan hua (dialect spoken in South Fujian Province), Guangdong hua (guess the meaning?? :slight_smile:), etc…

I think a few friends tried to answer you may make some mistakes. Also, please correct me if I am wrong in this post.[/quote]

duly noted, recorded and then stored in the circular filing system.

if you checked the op, the question was about Taiwan usage, something you don’t seem to know too much about if you were never there.

(but i’m only a nativer speaker of the English dialect.)

34

Yes, you are wrong in one respect - he was asking about how they’re used in Taiwan, not the mainland. He already knows that.

35

Strangely enough, I heard the term “guoyu” in Hong Kong. A saleslady found out I lived in Taiwan and switched to Mandarin upon finding out (she felt her Mandarin ability was superior to her English). I specifically remember her saying she can speak guo2 yu3. But perhaps she was deliberately using that term with someone who lives in Taiwan, as that would be the more familiar term(?).

36

I would say Hongkong people also use the term “Guo2 Yu3”, they have a lot communication with Taiwan.

37

Already covered [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/which-word-for-chinese/16579/15 on the first page of this thread.