Whither the Left?

Politics International Politics
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The vignette below captures the addle-brained mentality of, arguably, the majority on the left.

[quote]Oct. 27, 2003 | Allan Johnson, a high school English teacher and debate coach from Fairfax, Virginia, held a sign saying “U.S. Troops Out of Iraq. Bring Them Home Now!” at Saturday’s “End the Occupation” rally in Washington, D.C. In fact, though, Johnson isn’t sure he wants to bring the troops home now, or to end the American occupation of Iraq. At least, not yet.

“We’ve made a giant mess,” said Johnson, a handsome man who wore his long snowy hair in a ponytail and had a sparkling stud in one ear. “I would hate for the Bush administration to halfway fix things and then leave, and then blame the Iraqis if things go wrong. Once you go to somebody’s house and break all the windows, don’t you owe them new windows?”

Why, then, was he marching at an “End the Occupation” rally? “I don’t agree with all the people here, believe you me,” he said. But his own sign? He glanced at it, startled, and explained that someone had handed it to him. “I didn’t even look at it,” he said. “I was just waving it.” [/quote]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/10/27/antiwar/index.html

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[quote=“porcelainprincess”]The vignette below captures the addle-brained mentality of, arguably, the majority on the left.
[/quote]

So often, the left can’t intellectually defend their beliefs, they let their emotions do it.

Many of the leftist here are a different story. Here at Forumosa, we got the intelligent leftists. :smiley: :smiley:

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[quote=“ludahai”][quote=“porcelainprincess”]The vignette below captures the addle-brained mentality of, arguably, the majority on the left.
[/quote]

So often, the left can’t intellectually defend their beliefs, they let their emotions do it.

Many of the leftist here are a different story. Here at Forumosa, we got the intelligent leftists. :smiley: :smiley:[/quote]

and the man is an english teacher and debate coach. think of all the young minds he is molding and influencing. :shock:

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The vignette below captures the addle-brained mentality of, arguably, the majority on the right.

Now, we can argue who’s dumber, porcelainprincess’ highschool teacher or the mullethead pictured above…

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:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Nice one Mod Lang.

HG

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That is one scary picture. It is to avoid precisely these type of people, that I refuse to enter a Wal-Mart anywhere in the world. :laughing:

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Regarding the excessive “civilized” behavior expected of soldiers by the media and amoral Leftists.

What does all this mean? Western societies from ancient Athens to imperial Rome to the French republic rarely collapsed because of a shortage of resources or because foreign enemies proved too numerous or formidable in arms

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Hi girls!

Those comments, while bigoted, are a tad simplistic. I think you should be asking the right questions, rather than offering your easy-to-swallow solution to the problems facing us today. Of particular importance to you is asking the question, “What makes the United States such a glorious target for Islamic fundamentalists?”

Bearing in mind it was an “ignored” group of people that allowed Osama and his cohorts to plan and execute 9/11, are you implying that the concensus on “Arab Street” doesn’t matter?

Dunc

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Whither the Left?

If the Left could embrace free trade - economic liberties.
If they could be more enthusiastic about entrepreneurialism
If they could accept more of a private role in the provision of public services
If they could stand up to corporate manipulation of government this way, rather than by calling for more government regulation as the answer…

Then, I believe, they would have a powerful message supporting both individual political and moral liberty as well as economic liberty. They would really stand against special interest groups, be they the pharmaceutical lobby or the truckers union. They would have a consistent and coherent message and I would regard myself as a left-winger.

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Big Dunc:

I will answer that since for a change you have asked a sensible and pertinent question.

Should we ignore the Arab Street. First like any nation, we must define how broad that street is.

Second, that Arab Street is very different from the one being portrayed by lefties. The attackers on 911 were not poor or desperate but deranged and filled with hatred akin to Fascism not to Islam. That is why they are known as Islamofascists. Their view of the world is unrealistic.

Third, the US must divorce its foreign policy to the Israel-Palestine question. The Arab World uses this as a stick to beat the US and whine about unfair treatment. It has very little to do with our overarching ambitions and goals. No sympathy should be given, no ear to listen to this incessant belly aching. It is not our problem. We will continue to supply Israel with weapons just as we do to many Middle Eastern nations but we are not responsible for solving the problem.

Fourth, Bush has done far more than any president to reshape these problems and the region. We cannot blame past US foreign policy on Bush nor can we claim that the Bush efforts to remake the Middle East with invading Afghanistan and Iraq are part of the problem when our delightfully politically correct efforts saw not kindness and respect for America but despise for our weakness. This led to 911.

What should we do? We should be very tough with Arab countries. All they do is whine like no one else gets treated unfairly or dislikes the realities of the world. Their problems are primarily of their own making and we should remind them frequently.

Finally, if Syria and Iran are sending agents (as well as Saudi Arabia) into Iraq to destabilize the nation, we should up the ante. They send 500, we send 2,000 into their nations to destabilize them. Then, let’s see how long this goes on. After all, Bush capturing Saddam certainly got Qaddafi’s attention. Similar efforts can be used to convince these mafiosos that we too know how to fight back. Dialogue is bullshit if not sincere. Syria and Iran are not sincere so let loose the dogs. Covert operations can be conducted and we need them now. When the problem is finally taken care of then and only then will we have the luxury to sit back and watch the next generation wail and gnash its teeth over evil American imperialism but at least our earnest young freshman and sophomores will be able to do so while taking a semester abroad to study at Baghdad U or Cairo U or Riyadh U where they can smoke pot and wail about capitalism with their Arab Brethren as friends much as the US students in Europe do now and then when they gang up on us in our dotage for being so evil and complain that the world is not fair, not just, we will be able to sit back in our rockers and be content that we truly have brought the indolent luxury of narcissistic nihilistic boredom to not only our next generation but to the next generation of Arabs and Muslims as well.

Hell, we got rid of the fascism of Germany,Italy and Japan and fought communism to a halt while outwaiting the fascisms of Spain and Portugal and military dictatorships of Greece Turkey, Latin America and East Asia. WE can wait this out as well. And we will be left standing with our liberal democracy and capitalism and free trade that will make the luxuriously high standards of leisure possible to allow people like you to whine about the evils of our system in the coming generations. Sad to say, I shall look forward to it and relish it.

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Hi girls!

Fred. I appreciate the reply to my out-of-character pertinent question! You chose not to really address the question beyond a few sweeping generalizations. (Fair enough)

Just a couple of points on what you did say:

I think you are deluded if you believe that the United States can sustain a policy of espousing “free trade” as you say while at the same time taking the stance of “its not my problem” – you can’t have global economic integration without social integration. This is not some hippy, pot smoking, incense burning assertion, it’s a fact. A fact that some of the old-school politicians are reluctantly taking on board.

Because the United States has considerable “economic” interests in Saudi Arabia, there has been no such “shock and awe” campaign against that “cruel and evil empire” has there? Sure, you’ll respond by saying, “The situation is different” until the cows come home, but you are only convincing yourself with that wobbly arguement – as I mentioned previously – you should be trying to convince the type of people that are lining up to give the United States another bloody nose. You can only take the piss for so long, you know.

The gray-haired brigade with side partings need to be retired back down to their farms methinks. Let in some new blood – us youth demand it! Anyway, I hate bigots and that’s good enough reason to vote their asses onto the first bus out of Washington. And I don’t like that cowboy walk of Bush, either.

Why would anybody expect the terrorists from Saudi Arabia that brought down the twin towers be anything but rich, smart, and motivated? Hell, Osama’s right hand man was a fruitin’ eye surgeon for crying out loud. I think the only people that believe that these fundamentalists (not the U.S. neocon type, but the Islamic fundamentalists) were poor, hopeless goat farmers are the ignoramuses on the right who whine incessantly and underestimate the resolve of this crowd.

The “not my problem” attitude is a dangerous one – a lesson you should have learned from what came out of Afghanistan on 9/11. Short memory.

Dunc

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Big Dunc:

Hitting the bottle a bit hard are we? I did not say anything about free trade. That is in IYBF’s post.

Second, generalizations? You mean what your response is filled with? Yeah the old Bush the cowboy and he smirks routine. I get it. I get it. Take another Prozac and get your aluminum foil hat on because we ARE listening to your thoughts and attempting to control your mind. Oh, whoops, um control your motor responses.

Third, did you even READ my post? We KNOW that the Arab Street matters naught. We KNOW that the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia and were rich and that Osama was a multimillionaire and Zawari is an eye surgeon. Where did we ever say we didn’t? You must have us confused with the ignorant rabble on the Left who cannot understand the differences between fact, fiction, opinion and speculation. THEY believe that the problem is one of poverty. My post was to the point of proving that poverty has very little to do with the terrorism involved.

Fourth, we are winning in Saudi Arabia by using different methods. Guess what? When you have as much economic clout as we do in Saudi Arabia, sometimes you do not need to invade to get the job of reform done. Before 911 it was not an urgency. This is easy to understand. The government had its plate full of other things like um um global warming. hahaha especially Vice President Gore you know the one that invented the Internet?!!!

Fifth, we are winning. We have accomplished far more in two years than any other administration about cleaning up that rat’s nest in the Middle East and you keep harping on particularist this particularist that like it’s the only course on politics you took in your short freshman year at some B-rated college in Nebraska. BUT how is Bush particularist? WE are calling Saudi Arabia to reform, we are putting the pressure on Gulf states to democratize, we have put our money where our mouth is by invading Afghanistan and Iraq, we are putting pressure on Syria and Iran, we have seen Pakistan, Libya and Sudan all rush to reform. Now your beef is that we have not yet put enough pressure on Uzbekistan!!! Just how many irons can we have in the fire at one time little AMERICA CAN DO ALL WITH A MAGIC WAVE OF ITS WAND? How much money is this going to cost? How long will this take? Where are the extra troops going to come from? Guess what? We do not have the time or resources to deal with uzbekistan and its human rights violations nor those in Azerbaidzhan right now. We have bigger fish to fry. If you cannot understand that, then I suggest you do the following:

I want you to have a full time job that requires the normal 20 hours per week of overtime (unpaid) of course. I want you to get married and have three children and buy a house with a mortgage. Then I want you to give substantially to the church or synagogue or mosque that you are actively involved in. Also, you must personally chair the membership, finance and future strategy committees while cochairing partners charities such as those for the Blind, retarded, criminal reform, drug reform, abortion whichever side you are on and environmental protection as well as funding the local opera, symphony, museum and library. Then you must work to ensure new regulations for traffic, garbage disposal in your neighborhood, chair the recycling committe, the renewable energy campaign and the foreign students exchange committees AND FUND THEM ALL YOURSELF since none of your friends or other committee members will give more than a quarter to each and every one of your efforts. Now do you get it butt chump? The US has finite resources and like every other poor sod we have to make tough decisions about how to spend our time money and blood. GET IT?

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Hi girls!

On the first point, yeah right! On the second, read your post again.

Sure I did.

Extreme particularism. And 9/11 provided the current administration the opportunity to get the Iraq thing going, right? And part of this process was exaggerating the threat in order to gain popular support and convince the young lads and women that are over their now with targets on their back that Iraq was a threat. My issue is not with them, but the twats that deceived them, and people like you that would be last to fill their boots. That’s why I’ll be nullifying your vote.

It’s not economic “clout” that is holding you back from dealing with Saudi Arabia, it’s “economic interests” – you get that right.

Really? That’s a bit presumptuous don’t you think? All you need is an asymmetric shock and you’ll be retracting that statement fast.

Oh Christ! Here we go again: supporting dictators while yapping about democracy, yapping about free trade while errecting barriers to trade that threaten to erode his political standing, condemming Saddam’s torture tactics while using Egyptian security personnel to extract information from “suspects,” demanding that countries dismantle nuclear weapons programs while pumping Israel with nuclear weapon know-how, I’ll leave the rest for you to ponder. Start your list by thinking about U.S. exploitation of international laws …

Sure, I get it. I always thought that was a no brainer.

Dunc

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Well Big Dunc:

You continue to worry all you want but I think the people in the region are voting big time with trucks and merchandise and investment and all going where? Iraq? Did you read about the incredible speculation that is going on with regard to the new dinar? Get a grip? We HAVE WON. WE did not say we would bring perfection but we WON get it WON, the power is on, the water is there, the gas is there, the oil refineries are up and running and the economy is booming and hell even the fucking artifacts are back in the god damned museum but you keep looking for new problems that is all you can do.

In the meantime, I will continue to celebrate our major victory. And in that regard, I admit I am highly particularist. You and the French can continue to agree and nod your heads sagely that we suffered a major defeat. hahah In your dreams pal In your dreams.

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Welcome to a world run by the Left…

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of

Common Sense who has been with us for many years.

No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records

were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such value lessons

as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird

gets the worm and that life isn’t always fair.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies

(don’t spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies

(adults, not kids, are in charge).

His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but

overbearing regulations were set in place.

Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment

for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using

mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an

unruly student, only worsened his condition.

It declined even further when schools were required to get

parental consent to administer aspirin to a student; but, could not

inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted

to have an abortion.

Finally, Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten

Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses;

and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman failed to

realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, she spilled a bit in her

lap, and was awarded a huge settlement

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and

Trust, his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son,

Reason.

He is survived by two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner.

Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.

If you still know him pass this on, if not join the majority and do nothing.

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Just how dangerous can Iraq be when these types of “brave” Leftists are flocking there in great numbers?

Later that night, I went down to dinner in my hotel restaurant, sitting by chance beside a table of Christian activists from America and Canada. As if to make clear anti-occupation sentiments clear, they were loudly snickering at the behavior of U.S. troops

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I know I keep harping on the moral bankruptcy of the Left, but this Hitchens jab was too good to pass up:

[quote]
When I quit writing my column for The Nation a couple of years ago, I wrote semi-sarcastically that it had become an echo chamber for those who were more afraid of John Ashcroft than Osama Bin Laden. I honestly did not then expect to find it publishing actual endorsements of jihad. But, as Marxism taught me, the logic of history and politics is a pitiless one. The antiwar isolationist “left” started by being merely “status quo”: opposing regime change and hinting at moral equivalence between Bush’s “terrorism” and the other sort. This conservative position didn’t take very long to metastasize into a flat-out reactionary one, with Michael Moore saying that the Iraqi “resistance” was the equivalent of the Revolutionary Minutemen, Tariq Ali calling for solidarity with the “insurgents,” and now Ms. Klein, among many others, wanting to bring the war home because any kind of anti-Americanism is better than none at all. These fellow-travelers with fascism are also changing ships on a falling tide: Their applause for the holy warriors comes at a time when wide swathes of the Arab and Muslim world are sickening of the mindless blasphemy and the sectarian bigotry. It took an effort for American pseudo-radicals to be outflanked on the left by Ayatollah Sistani, but they managed it somehow.[/quote]

Murder By Any Other Name: The rest of the world may be tiring of jihad, but The Nation isn’t.

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Slightly old thread :wink:
Quite an interesting read.