Who is Christian?


#321

How is it not orderly?
Cause and effect.
Disorderly would be sometimes the lava is hot, and sometimes it’s icy cold Grapefruit Jarritos.

If what you say were true, we’d never be able to figure out why typhoons happened.
We’d never know if hot air was going to rise, fall, or go sideways
Nobody would know whether it was going to be brutally hot or -55°C and blizzarding in July. Farming wouldn’t exist because we’d never know if that one seed was going to grow a carrot, an oak tree, or some sweeeet ass Pnkman Goo.

Once again, don’t confuse disorderly with unpredictable.


#322

I don’t have a subscription. What’s the punchline?


#323

Volcanologists out there would disagree with you.


#324

Are you aware the vast majority of New Testament scholars don’t believe the Trinity is taught in the NT?


#325

notable quote

  • "I remain convinced there are serious issues of difference that are of eternal consequence, but now we can discuss them as friends

#326

Then, if the scripture is wrong, they can think wrong things to be truths. How can Christians know the scripture is correct?


#327

I want to buy you a pack of smokes just for using that word, man.:+1:


#328

If you’re saying that the New Testament doesn’t directly say here, this is the doctrine of the trinity. Then yes, I’m aware.

I will leave this link for you to read if you’re interested. I’m getting drilled with questions left and right and the link does a much better job of explaining what I would call the most confusing doctrine of Christianity.


#329

So there are certain miracles that god gave us to understand him. One is scripture, another I mentioned is nature. We can see truth in nature wouldn’t you say? Therefore we must see truth in scripture.

So as an atheist which I assume you are. I’m just going to mention some of the things that you would probably relate to more. For one, others before me have said like scripture has changed over and over from people changing it up. And time has made us jumbled and translation made things lost.

Not true. We literally have thousands on thousands of manuscripts from Greek, Latin, Hebrew. And with the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls, the earliest manuscripts known. We can see that after so long, scripture actually stays consistent. It’s 99.5% consistent after so long from early manuscripts. And most of the errors are spelling and grammatical. This is pretty amazing, no other works can claim such a thing.

The Bible is historically and archeologically accurate. People have tried to see if the historical timeline and facts in the Bible are accurate, it is. So much so it’s very least considered a historical work. Archeological finds also match what scripture said. All pretty interesting if you want to do more research to it.

Also the Bible names people, many of them we found evidence of existed. For example we know pompous Pilot existed from other sources aside from the Bible.


#330

The Trinity concept as one being manifest through three personages is not supported by scripture. It was not until the councils of Nicaea (AD 325) and Chalcedon (AD 451) that the doctrine of the Trinity was defined. The formal doctrine of the Trinity is not found in the New Testament because the idea was only introduced hundreds of years later. Some Christians such as LDS and others center their faith instead on the Godhead as three distinct personages as supported by scripture.

Remember the story in Matthew when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist? It’s a perfect example of three distinct beings acting together—as a Godhead—to accomplish the will of Heavenly Father.

“And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased” [Matthew 3:16–17].

In that moment, all three members of the Godhead were present. Christ, being baptized; the Holy Ghost, as indicated by the sign of the dove; and Heavenly Father’s voice emanating from the heavens.

Another key scripture passage that points to the Godhead comprising three different personages recounts some of the last words Jesus spoke while on this earth.

“Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” [Luke 23:35].

Even while Jesus hung on the cross, suffering for the sins of the world, He asked God the Father to forgive the Roman soldiers who were crucifying Him. Christ advocated with Heavenly Father on behalf of those soldiers for their forgiveness.

Also, Jesus taught that we should pray to the Father. In His explanation on this matter, known as the Lord’s Prayer: see [Matthew 6]. He addresses the Father as a separate being.

There are other things in the Bible that also point to the Trinity being 3 distinct individuals.


#331

That arTicLe just says members of the Trinity are seen or mentioned together. Mormons believe that. The only thing about the Trinity Mormons don’t believe in the “one substance” thing.


#332

They are 3 distinct persons…it’s literally what the trinity says. 3 persons, one essence, one God.

Didn’t we already have this conversation?


#333

eh? Have we been arguing yet agreeing this whole time?

I am saying they are three distinct beings, three separate beings with one common purpose. God the Father (the only God to be worshiped), Christ the son of God who atoned for mankind’s salvation and the Holy Spirit (a vessel of which God the Father and Christ the son of God use to communicate with mortals). Is that what you are saying also?


#334

So my understanding is that Mormonism says, 3 persons that are distinct. But they believe in multiple gods but worship one of them as god.

Trinity says, 3 distinct persons, but all in one essence as One God. No other god, just one God.


#335

I don’t think most Mormons have a good idea of what the Trinity means. Then again, it’s not our fault. I don’t know anyone who does. I’ve yet to hear any Christian explain it correctly. That’s why it’s a mystery.


#336

No, not really. Not in the sense that there are Gods floating around out there with different domains. More in the sense that everyone has the opportunity to become Godlike through the eternities. They believe there is only on supreme being: God the Father and that is who they worship through Christ the son of God.

As far as “other Gods” are concerned, their belief is that any “other God” is not a God at all, but rather something created by mankind. ie The Golden Calf in the story of Moses, all of the deities in the Chinese temples around here, etc etc.

All in one essence. Can you explain more? I want to make sure I am understanding this.
When I read one essence I think of it meaning one spirit. This, LDS would disagree with. Their doctrine teaches each in the Trinity are separate spirits but united in purpose.


#337

Not many Christians that say they believe in the trinity does either lol. It’s probably one of the hardest to explain and grasp.

The best explanation I learned from is C.S Lewis. Here’s a link to what he wrote explaining it. I wouldn’t dare to try to explain it in really theologically sound in the details and paraphrase him lol. It would probably be wrong in some way.


#338

Ok, you were right about Mormons not worshipping more than one god. That was my mistake in understanding Mormonism. Correct me if I’m wrong as I’m not as well versed in Mormon beliefs. But Mormonism is not polytheistic in terms of how Hindus believe. But they do believe in multiple gods that are separate in being and essence. But they worship god the father as the supreme god.

Trinity says no, God specifically said he is god and there is no other god. And that god the father, son and Holy Spirit is one. They are distinct persons but one in essence. They are equal with different responsibilities.


#339

Well don’t let that stop you from spending a friggin day and a half arguing with practically every other human on the planet regarding those beliefs.:roll:

No smokes for you!!!
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#340

LDS also have a unique and clearer understanding of the Trinity because they lay claim that God the Father and Christ the son of God appeared as two individuals side by side, both speaking to Joseph Smith multiple times. This does in fact separate their faith from the rest of Christianity, however does not in any way eliminate them from being “christian”, believers in Christ.

Modern Day revelation was Gods way of clearing things up. All the confusion over the past centuries has been sorted out, according to their belief. Does that make all other religions false? No. It makes them incomplete.

You could have a partial blueprint to build a house. You spend years trying to figure it out and you build what you interpret the blue prints to mean as best you can with what you have. Then someone come along who obtained the full blueprint and builds a more precise house with the same plan. Did the first person build something that was not a house? No. They just built something that was incomplete.