Who is Christian?


#422

Yeah. I don’t see the need. Just asking everyone to cool it down. If it doesn’t apply to you, no issue


#423

Ah, ok, then.


#424

I agree with most of what you say here, but still, not a great PR move. Polygamy has been a big no no in the West for many hundreds of years.


#425

Because it was incomplete. And according to LDS it still is incomplete. God has not revealed it all yet. He is holding back for the right time.

God did not compile the Bible. Men picked which scrolls / writings to include in the Bible and then left a bunch out. Future Revelations also added to the gospel. Why would God only teach during a small period of time and not continue to teach more as mankind advances, progresses etc?


#426

On the contrary, I’d say there were whole bunch of Mormon dudes who thought it was a fuckin great deal.:+1:


#427

From an ex Mormon. Don’t listen to me. Someone who practiced both faiths.


#428

That’s one way of looking at it. If you’re getting hen pecked though…


#429

Andrew,

You are firm in your beliefs. That is great for you. I am glad you found what you need in life for your own spiritual needs. That you want to share and spread that Joy is also admirable. Many people wander through life with no direction or purpose and die with a feeling of incompleteness. It is awesome you have filled that need in your life.

Let others worship the way they want so long as the are not harming you or others. The LDS are good people who mean you and everyone else no harm. They are happy for you as much as I am about your spiritual growth. Your perceived anger and hostility towards them is not healthy nor Christ like. For your own good, let them be. Be at peace.


#430

Ahem. Members of the gay community might disagree with that statement.


#431

Hey, I don’t hate Mormons or have much of a problem against people who are Mormons. I’ve said before they’re nice people. That’s not the issue at hand. I’m not trying to force anyone to stop being mormons.

I’m just laying out the differences. I’m annoyed by people who it doesn’t matter to, and don’t understand a thing about Mormon and Christianity keep saying definitive things about it.


#432

Maybe then you should stop being so mean to that poor little simple-headed half-Chinese girl. Big guy like you, you should be ashamed of yourself.:no_no:


#433

That is a whole nutha can of worms.

They believe homosexuality is contrary to God’s plan for mankind. You can be LDS and be homosexual. You just can’t enter into Temple covenants. They also believe marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman and they pressed hard politicaly to keep it that way in the USA recently.

Remember a few posts back when I mentioned they follow the law of the land so long as it does not contradict God’s laws? Well, they view this as a chance to prevent the law of the land changing into something they can’t live by.

They encourage their members to show Christlike love to all people, but admonish their members to live a righteous life following God’s rules.

Do I agree with them in this point of gay marriage? No. I personally think it’s fine.


#434

Here’s my problem with @hanna149 here.

She says she doesn’t take a chance.
But takes a stance in Mormons are Christians.

She says no one is more right. (I hate relativism, it’s how a 5 year old thinks)
But she’s still pushes a side. But it’s still not more right according her. Everyone is right or wrong… why’s she so intent on saying anything then.

She says people can’t make good comparison and conclusions between two religions.
But makes some pretty conclusive statements about what Christianity is, how religion is and should be practiced, theologians, etc.

I would not care if she just said she’s right and take a stance.


#435

Can you honestly say you can prove without a shadow of a doubt that you are right, Andrew?
I would say if one can’t prove something is 100% right, then let others be. If LDS call themselves Christian and it causes you no harm, why fight it so much? Can you, Andrew, give 100% proof that Christians are what you claim them to be?


#436

Does LDS say they are right or at least more right?

That’s all I’m saying. One is A another is B. The discussion really is if Mormons are Christians. I laid out reasons no. If you want to lay out reason they are. Ok. We had a good discussion even if we disagree. We haven’t been arguing if Mormons and Christians are right about god as much as if they are indeed the same things and what their doctinres are and how they’re the same or different right?

I’m not against this.
I’m annoyed at the.

“ I don’t think anyone is right and I don’t know anything but here I am saying some pretty definitive things about all of this.”

No one else finds statements like,

No theologian worth a salt says definitive things-says a definitive thing

Everyone is wrong, no one is more right-what? Self refuting much?

The more you study, the less you are sure-seems pretty sure about this


#437

If I may, one of the ways historically the early Christians determined whether people were “in” or “out” in terms of orthodoxy was precisely on the issue of the nature of God and Jesus. In fact, we can say that the first great intra-church issue they had to deal with was precisely understanding the relationship between God and Jesus in light of the Jewish canon and New Testament writings. With people insisting on the “one-ness” of God, rejecting Jesus as having the same nature as God in various ways, or with people insisting on the “three-ness” of God, speaking of the three persons as if they were three Gods, the church had to wrestle with how to speak of God’s nature based on received Scripture. The result over a period of time was the crystallization of the Trinitarian doctrine, from the Council of Nicea to Constantinople.

I think worth seeing is how the early church (and how the Protestant and Pre-Vatican II Roman Catholic church) determined catholicity: there must be an agreement in understanding the nature of who God is according to the seven ecumenical councils. Of course, later on the Protestants and Roman Catholics would disagree on other terms of orthodoxy, most notably how salvation is obtained, but they both agree in terms of the doctrines of God.

If we are to follow how Christians historically have determined who’s “in” and “out” based on doctrines of the nature of God (read: the Trinity), certainly many self-professing “Christians” would be “out.” This includes Unitarians, Oneness Pentecostals, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormonism.

Other boundaries of orthodoxy become complicated as we traverse through church history, from the Schism of 1054, to the Protestant Reformation (and subsequent Counter-Reformation/Trent), the Radical Reformation, to Theological Liberalism, and to Vatican II. Nowadays, if you ask 5 people what a Christian is, you’ll probably get 10 answers. I just wanted to describe one of the ways many Christians have determined orthodoxy. Obviously, people who consider themselves “Christian” disagree on these matters to this day.


#438

The Pope?


#439

Not according to some.


#440

And this is exactly how and why “Mormonism” came about. God looked at it all and said, “Jeesh, this is a mess. You guys done and mucked it all up.” Too much infighting, disagreement, splintering etc. So, according to the LDS, God revealed new doctrine to clean up the whole mess and put things back on track.

This separates Mormonism as being non-mainstream Christianity. They don’t even want to be included in that group because, according to their beliefs, main stream Christianity is exactly what God wanted everyone to get out of.

Does not being called a Christian have any affect on a member of the LDS faith? Nope. They keep on being good Latter Day Saints doing their thing and spreading charity, love and goodwill to the world.

Does being called a Christian have any affect on people of other non-LDS Christian faiths? Obviously so. People get all bent out of shape about it. It affects their core belief system. It invalidates what they believe to be exactly who they are.

So would it not be okay to have 2 groups?

“Mainstream Christianity” and “Non-Mainstream Christianity”

We could lump everyone into the first and let the LDS retain their belief in Christ and keep the name of their church by putting them into the second group.


#441

Ahhhh, “Mainliners”…