Who is Richard Hartzell?

For people who want to live here permanently but don’t want to give up original citizenships, Taiwan has ARPC.

Not the same thing.

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The APRC is basically the same as any kind of resident visa. The only advantage it has is that you don’t need to keep reapplying. It’s not really even permanent. It’s a strange situation when a supposed permanent residence visa gives you literally no more rights than a regular residence visa.

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All those hoops for you to jump. All those walls, distractions. They should not have been but they are. Why?

Hertzell had a 1984 experience. He jumped, instead of through one more hoop, outside Manchurian Ward. Out there in piles of documents, he rediscovered the true identity of Taiwan, which was once lost.

He came back to with the new realization, which the pro-indpendence camp ignored and Dr. Lin exploited. Maybe that experience had made Hertzell disillusional—it would for an ordinary man but Hertzell is not a very ordinary man.

Same problem.

I’m from a country that doesn’t allow dual citizenship, so getting a citizenship from another country is a massive deal. It is something like getting a new wife and giving up an old wife. We should be loyal to the country if we get a citizenship from a country.

if I’m not wrong, you don’t need to give up your original citizenship during the interim period. Am I wrong?

You don’t get open work rights on a regular visa. (And I should be able to point out the pension difference too, but they seem to be dragging their feet on that one.)

Once you become a taiwanese citizen, you can collect multiple passports as born taiwanese can do.
It is not only taiwan that treats born citizens and naturalized citizens differently.

some services by governments are also applied to APRC holders, but not to ARC holders.

It is only Taiwan that treats it’s immigrants this way so blatantly. Even if there are others it would be no justification at all for the unfair practice.

APRC holders don’t have a national ID, without a national ID you are not entitled to right of return to Taiwan (apart from lots of other legal and financial issues and voting rights) .
You can be kicked out and that’s it.

Look it up instead of trying to defend the undefensible.

You are wrong you are missing a lot of basic info about the whole process .

I on the other other hand am one of the very few individuals who have ever attempted the process that is not ethnic Chinese or from a third world country.

Should we trust you or me. Sick of people like you who try to defend poor laws and regulations with your limited knowledge.

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ONLY taiwan? try to become a citizen in any middle eastern or (south) east asian or african country, practically everywhere. only in the west, you’ll get citizenship relatively easy.

This statement is very subjective. I don’t think immigrants should give up their original passports is such blatant.

Isn’t it common in many countries?

Which part of the process am I missing? The process of naturalization is different for individuals from a 3rd world country and from a first or second world country?

Go get the documentation about the process (not that it’s very clear ) .

You need to prove that you have given up previous citizenship to get Taiwan ROC citizenship (unless given a special waiver).

And yes the process is different according to which country you come from (mainland Chinese,Japanese ) and also how your original country of citizenship allows you to ‘game’ the documents.

It can then take a further 1 year to 5 years to actually get the national ID and passport (depending on further residency requirements).

You claimed the APRC offered the same rights as passport for residency in Taiwan.

You are wrong. Stop making up your facts.

They changed the system at the end of 2016, but didn’t entirely eliminate this problem. Under the old system, you’d give up your original citizenship, then sit around stateless while applying for ROC citizenship (which might not be granted). Under the new citizenship, you apply for ROC citizenship (two sets of hoops), then become a Taiwan national without ID number. You then have one year (extendable) to renounce your original citizenship, unless excused by virtue of being a super-foreigner (a status you have to apply for before any of this). You can get a passport, but it will not have an ID number, which means many countries will not accept it (somebody before asked which ones, and got no reply), or at least not grant visa-free travel. You keep this status for one year, unless you manage to leave the country, in which case it extends to two (if you left for less than three months) or more years. And if you break some serious law or breach public morals within the first five years of citizenship, they can strip that citizenship from you, leaving you stateless.

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Now this is somebody who knows the process. Well explained . The part about being extendable to apply to renounce citizenship depends on the cooperation of your home country (and I can tell third world countries are easier to get this stuff). What the applicant does is submit an application to the home country with a back dated date to action the citizenship renunciation, they you ask them to ssue you a receipt.

Obviously lots of countries won’t agree to do this . In the case they don’t give you an extension (you cannot provide this back dated application document ), you must show proof of giving up your citizenship within 1 year of receiving your naturalisation certificate.

You have to wait 1 year to 5 year to get a citizenship after naturalization. But should you wait for further 1 ~ 5 year to get the national ID and passport after that? You don’t need to submit Abdication Certificate of the Original Nation when you apply for naturalization.

so, while you are a national without a household registration, you can keep your original passport (for 1 year, and it is extendable).

I’ve never claimed that. I’m just claiming APRC holders have more rights than ARC holders, and it is common permanent residents don’t have the same rights with citizens.

You should be busy liking Dawuds posts and reading the documentation, educating yourself.

Yes, I read Dawuds post, and which part of my reply is wrong?

Most of them. :slight_smile:

You still haven’t liked Dawuds post ,but sure quick to reply with your own non fact based opinions.