I think the two quotes above are quite sensible answers. It is very unfortunate that many people in Taiwan have come to understand Taiwanese as being synonomous with speaking Hoklo and tracing ancestry in Taiwan back at least several generations. People from both sides of politics use it as a wedge. The DPP to to appeal to their voting base and the KMT to appeal to those who feel excluded by this definition.
Everyone who calls Taiwan their home is Taiwanese. What language you speak, where your parents were born or what “ethnic group” you belong to has nothing to do with it.
Hsieh said this very clearly in his speech on the eve of the election. Hoklo, Hakka, aborigines, “waishengren”, [color=red]
foreign brides are all Taiwanese.
[/color][/quote]
Errrr…So foreign bridegrooms are what… chopped liver?[/quote]
good point !!! whats the price for chopped liver these days?
I think the two quotes above are quite sensible answers. It is very unfortunate that many people in Taiwan have come to understand Taiwanese as being synonomous with speaking Hoklo and tracing ancestry in Taiwan back at least several generations. People from both sides of politics use it as a wedge. The DPP to to appeal to their voting base and the KMT to appeal to those who feel excluded by this definition.
Everyone who calls Taiwan their home is Taiwanese. What language you speak, where your parents were born or what “ethnic group” you belong to has nothing to do with it.
Hsieh said this very clearly in his speech on the eve of the election. Hoklo, Hakka, aborigines, “waishengren”, [color=red]
foreign brides are all Taiwanese.
[/color][/quote]
Errrr…So foreign bridegrooms are what… chopped liver?[/quote]
good point !!! whats the price for chopped liver these days?[/quote]
Regarding the point about “foreign brides”. It is a poor choice of words (by Hsieh and others not me).
The number of foreign brides does far outweigh the number of foreign bridegrooms, but still the government and politicians could just use the term foreign spouses.
When ask about nationality will answer “I am Taiwanese” instead of “I am Chinese”
[/quote]
If you ask people in Taiwan which country they’re a citizen of, obviously they’re going to say Taiwan(or more appropriately ROC). Of course no one in Taiwan is going to say they’re PRC citizens. But more often than not this question is framed in a more general term, as in “are you Taiwanese or Chinese?”(kind of a political question to begin with) In this case “Chinese” is more of a cultural term that includes people from various places and ethnicities. You can be Taiwanese and Chinese at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.
When ask about nationality will answer “I am Taiwanese” instead of “I am Chinese”
[/quote]
If you ask people in Taiwan which country they’re a citizen of, obviously they’re going to say Taiwan(or more appropriately ROC). Of course no one in Taiwan is going to say they’re PRC citizens. But more often than not this question is framed in a more general term, as in “are you Taiwanese or Chinese?”(kind of a political question to begin with) In this case “Chinese” is more of a cultural term that includes people from various places and ethnicities. You can be Taiwanese and Chinese at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive.[/quote]
If you ask if they are 華人 (huaren - a person of Chinese ethnicity), they will most likely answer Yes, just as a Chinese person from Malaysia or Singapore would.
there’s a new study out in the September 2007 Taiwan Democracy Quarterly that some may find interesting. Regarding identity, here’s the breakdown for respondents who came of voting age before 1992:
Taiwanese only: 45.5
Taiwanese and Chinese both: 41.2
Chinese only: 8.2
those coming of voting age from 1992:
Taiwanese only: 43.4
Taiwanese and Chinese both: 49.2
Chinese only: 5.1
I tend to agree with what Chris suggested earlier: Taiwanese consider themselves ‘Taiwanese’ as far as nationality, but Taiwanese and/or Chinese as far as ethnicity.
That’s fine but that only accounts for the large “Taiwanese and Chinese” response. I still find it surprising that the “Taiwanese only” numbers have decreased from one generation to the next. I would have thought that the younger generation would tend to be more culturally removed from the mainland and thus, identify themselves more as “Taiwanese only” than the previous generation.
probably, the younger generations are the ones having to move to China when factories are sent there… therefore, they might have a different idea when they come back…
Many still consider the term Taiwanese to mean exclusively Hoklo in Taiwan. So it is not surprising to see the decrease in number.
Not to mention the DPP marginalized many moderate Hoklo with their racist overtures over the past couple of years, who interact with their other ethnic groups on a daily basis.
The belief that identity politics on Taiwan was the solution to TI was truly flawed once it hit the reality that Taiwan was a multi-ethnic island that didn’t believe Hoklo deserved dominance just by the accident of their birth rate.
Once it was publicly know that CSB was also a Hakka in Hoklo clothing the whole identity politics movement lost its favor.
When ask about nationality will answer “I am Taiwanese” instead of “I am Chinese”
Who embrace democracy for better or worse.
Care about Taiwan, but not blinded by polictical parties.[/quote]
Australians :
Ability to speak fluent English
Ability to speak fluent Australian
Loves Australia willing to defend its right
When ask about nationality will answer “I am Australian mate” instead of “My ancestors were convicts from Ireland”
Who embrace democracy for better or worse.
Care about Australia, but not blinded by polictical parties.
NZ etc could answer the same.
Seems that defining an identity is difficult and people choose whatever characteristics believe forge a stronger identity or identify more common things with other people to accommodate inclusion into a single group
Most people have no issue with identity cause their education, national anthem, national boundaries, etc lay it out for them Any minorties are usually assimlated by the larger group. But in Taiwan people are constantly told they are Chinese or Taiwanese or Hakka or Aborigines, whatever term makes for a better argument (usually for the politician) at a specific moment
What about the Germany Nazi that were allow to immigrate to Australia to keep inline with the White Australia policies of the past.
Surely there must be some tension within those groups on Australia?
[/quote]
probably there is tension as there is among any groups. When the Nazis fled to Australia, did they continue to state that the third reich existed in Australia or as part of it ignoring the fact that the majority of the people in Australia were not German?
If they did how far did it get them? Probably nowhere
How far has it got the KMT, DPP, and Taiwan and her people in continuing or being forced to state that the ROC exists? Not far beyond money(foreign aid) in KMT pockets, money (sogo vouchers)in DPP pockets
whats the price for chopped liver these days?
