Ask any economist and they’ll give you a realistic assessment of govt V cyclical.
A govt can do things to assist with bolstering/kicking off, but in a downturn they are hard pressed to fight the forces… to think otherwise is naiive.
Taiwan’ economy is at the mercy of the international environment.
So far all the replies have been basically “Because the KMT are evil EVIL EVILLLLL!”, but has anyone really answered the original poster’s question, which is why do foreigners tend to be more pro-DPP than the average Taiwanese, i.e., why the disparity? I’ve observed this before, and while most foreigners tend to treat it as an obvious question, why does this disparity exist? I’ve heard people suggest (even in this thread) that foreigners know or understand more about Taiwan, or have superior morals, etc., but surely that’s a bit far-fetched. Isn’t it a double standard to say, when the Taiwanese public opinion agrees with you, that “the people’s voice should be heard”, but when it doesn’t agree that “they’ve been brainwashed and have no guts”?
There’s also differing cultural backgrounds. For example, most Americans were raised with the idea that independence and revolution are inherently honorable expressions of patriotism.
And, of course, there’s the fact that foreigners have passports and homes in other countries, which might also make a difference in terms of practicality vs. ideals.
Or perhaps too many people read the Taipei Times and think good layout=accurate, unbiased news.
Sorry to keep posting…
The passport issue is interesting. Considering a majority of KMT types have foreign passports and have the option of buggering off if the shit hits the fan… enough reason for me.
Yes I know CSB used this effectively as an electioneering tool
[quote=“AWOL”]Sorry to keep posting…
The passport issue is interesting. Considering a majority of KMT types have foreign passports and have the option of buggering off if the shit hits the fan… enough reason for me.[/quote]
Are there any statistics available on the percentage of foreign passport holders by party and degree of support for TI? Or is this another one of those “everyone knows”-type things I should know about?
Most Taiwanese have little or no understanding of politics. If they don’t understand their politics I don’t see how I can ever truely understand what is going on. Toss a coin and pick one. In the end politicians all suck.
KMT, DPP, they’re both great at screwing up the country but in different ways.
Unification. I swing both ways on that issue. 
Lee Deng Hui as President again, that prick, not a chance. :fume:
[quote=“Poagao”][quote=“AWOL”]Sorry to keep posting…
The passport issue is interesting. Considering a majority of KMT types have foreign passports and have the option of buggering off if the shit hits the fan… enough reason for me.[/quote]
Are there any statistics available on the percentage of foreign passport holders by party and degree of support for TI? Or is this another one of those “everyone knows”-type things I should know about?[/quote]
Surely you would have to agree that the KMT’s policy of supporting the children of the KMT to attend university overseas and the fact that KMT members are on the whole wealthier than the typical DPP’er - this would amount to easing foreign passport applications? Here in Australia and on study/work trips to the US and Canada I have met many young Taiwanese on KMT scholarships. Their goal (if not already achieved ) was/is to attain PR or citizenship of the country in which they are studying.
And yes, I know there are DPP types OS studying.
Totally unfair, as was pointed out above. Due to globalization, most economies in the world are linked together and suffered a decline from 2000-2002, just starting to bounce back last year. Below is a chart of the NASDAQ and the TAIEX. Not much difference is there?
Note: I don’t know why the chart shows it as Ixic or whatever – that’s the NASDAQ and the TAIEX.
Poagao:
I think foreigners who have been here since the late 1980s tend to be pro-DPP. Taiwan was very close to being a police state at the time, and the DPP/Dangwai movement were clearly ‘on the right side of history.’ Today’s KMT is much less ideological than the KMT of the 1970s and 1980s, but many of us remember that its current leadership were mid-level party hacks in those days whereas DPP leaders like Lin Yixiong and Chen were getting their families murdered or crippled for daring to stand up.
Foreigners who have arrived since the mid-1990s have a very different perception of Taiwan. They identify Taipei’s internationalization with the English-speaking, which tends to be overwhelming pro-blue especially up in Taipei. They also quickly absorb ingrained prejudices against the Taiwanese majority from that elite and are uncomfortable with the rising tide of Taiwanese nationalism.
I think you’re really twisting some ideas here to make them favorable to your argument. If anything, Americans view the idea that independence and revolution were honorable expressions of patriotism in 1776, but now they are regarded as dangerous.
What these values are regarded as are honorable traits in individuals who stand up for what they believe in. If there were no independent ideas, or people who revolted could you imagine what the world would be like?
I really don’t understand how you can fault foreigners for cheering these traits on in Taiwan. Cultures share and intermix values… that’s a good thing.
Stuff and nonsense. You’ve swallowed that one hook, line and sinker, haven’t you! It shows how effective the pan-blue propaganda has been.
In fact, the economy is probably in a healthier condition and the outlook much rosier than it would have been if the transfer of power had never taken place. The loss of jobs in Taiwan is primarily due to the relocation of labor-intensive industries to China, which is not at all a bad thing for Taiwan, but a necessary part of the maturing and upgrading of this economy. Even at its peak of 5%, the unemployment rate was very low by global standards, and effective government measures are already reducing it very effectively. The weakening of economic growth and the one year of recession were primarily due to external factors, especially the global economic slowdown and slump in the global IT industry. Under government policy established before the DPP came to power, Taiwan had become over-reliant on industries that were badly affected by this slump, so Taiwan couldn’t but be severely affected by these matters that were totally beyond their control. This would have happened whichever party was in power.
Although the DPP was short of experienced policy-making technocrats when they first came to power, and did not perform as well as many would have hoped, they have learnt quickly and have been doing a better and better job, especially in the last couple of years, when their policies and efforts can hardly be faulted. If the pan-blue forces in the Legislative Yuan had worked in the country’s best interests rather than opposing and blocking sensible and much-needed leglslation merely for the sake of opposition, the government would have been able to achieve a great deal more.
I have much higher hopes for the economy if Chen remains in power than if Lien and Soong take over. Many in the business community, both local and foreign, now hold exactly the same view.
Personally, I like twisting things so they are unfavorable to my arguments.
yes, it’s ironic that the states could revolt and agree voluntarily to form a union of states, but they can’t leave the union a la 1863.
I would think that the KMT being EVILLLLL should pretty much answer the question. You could also add that mainland Chinese being on the evil end of the spectrum is another push.
Is anyone else on the board a Tiananmen refugee? I know that much of my own support for the DPP is knee-jerk anti-China sentiment. If the Chinese oppose Taiwanese independence, I’m fer it. If China says it is against stomping kittens while on heroin, I’m shooting up, lacing my boots, and heading for the animal shelter. If I could participate in local politics in any meaningful sense, I’d have to take a less shallow stance. But I can’t, so I don’t.
And as so many posters point out, the KMT sucks pretty bad. Not like 20 years ago, but they still don’t have a plethora of redeeming ideals or proposals.
And Poagao, wo ye aisi zhe ge difang. I’m sorry they juked you on the purpose of the ad, but I thought it was pretty cool anyway.
In 1776, Americans didn’t have to worry about Boston, New York or Charleston being nuked. If the Chinese invade Taiwan, I seriously doubt they’ll be wearing red coats and marching in lines up Yangmingshan.
" The PRC’s strategy seeks to use its long-range missiles to deter U.S. leaders from aiding our friends and allies in Asia, including Taiwan, by holding U.S. cities hostage. During the 1996 Taiwan Straits crisis, a People’s Liberation Army general stated that the United States would not be willing to trade Los Angeles for Taipei."
And Ezra Pound claimed for all his faults, Mussolini at least made the trains run on time.
Totally unfair, as was pointed out above. Due to globalization, most economies in the world are linked together and suffered a decline from 2000-2002, [/quote]See ? Blaming foreigners for everything again :raspberry:
[quote=“blueface666”]
" The PRC’s strategy seeks to use its long-range missiles to deter U.S. leaders from aiding our friends and allies in Asia, including Taiwan, by holding U.S. cities hostage. During the 1996 Taiwan Straits crisis, a People’s Liberation Army general stated that the United States would not be willing to trade Los Angeles for Taipei."
fas.org/nuke/control/abmt/ne … 10-abm.htm[/quote]
This is probably a reference to Mao’s policy. He accepted the risk of trading US cities one for one with Chinese cities, because he figured that in such an “attrition” war, Chinese populations would still outnumber the enemy’s.
I favor Chen because he’s clearly much smarter than the opposition guys (just look how well he’s outplayed them), more willing to stand up to China (the other guys would probably strike a deal just to ensure their own continued power, they seem like just the sort), and more ethical (suffered rather than dealt suffering during the Bad Old Days, doesn’t apparently beat his wife) despite lapses. Four more years of Chen would mean more time for a Taiwan identity to coalesce. Four more years of the KMT would be about enough to sell out the country.
what will you all foreigners do if the Communists take over Taiwan by force?
I don’t know. What could we do? What will all you Taiwanese do?
Depends on a lot of things. How fast it happens, what options there are for flight and moving somewhere else (with Taiwanese significant other), what form the transition will take (are we talking Hong Kong or Tibet here?), what life looks to be like afterwards.